User talk:kenny2scratch/archive 22

kenny2scratch
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This page is archive 22 of User talk:Kenny2scratch. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Moving plural page titles to singular

The last time we discussed about this topic was in early February, and it's already late April now – almost 3 months. It is very confusing to have both singular and plural pages, and it makes it harder for editors as well. [[Block]]s is the same as [[Block|Blocks]], but there is no shortcut for [[Blocks|Block]]. Shold we move all the pages, or can we just leave them and work with it?
CrazyBoy826 | Talk | 8,242 edits | Scratch 21:34, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

hi

hello random user that you probably didnt know that I exist saying hello cause theyre as bored as heck
Fashionqueen9 (talk | contribs) 21:22, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

lol hi, how you doin'?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:28, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

I didn't know anyone existed, to be honest.

banana439monkey (Talk | Contribs | Scratch | Edits (3,484))

09:00, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Oh god lol
Fashionqueen9 (talk | contribs) 22:41, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Yo remember to indent replies :)
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:12, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

About a broken link it's in your main page

See: User:Kenny2scratch#cite_ref-6
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  16:52, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

0-0 Sidebar

That sidebar is beautiful! How the chicken-horse did you make that?! I didn't know you could do that XD
Mohie (talk | contribs) 15:49, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

lol thanks, I don't really know how to explain it but in short the <div> that wraps the whole sidebar has the CSS attributes position: fixed; left: 0; bottom: 0; set on it so that it stays stuck to the left and bottom of the screen. I found the technique from GlassGalaxy whose userpage I was browsing for some reason.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  04:28, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Scratch Wiki Adventure

 Done
Hi. Scratch Wiki:Scratch Wiki Adventure is finished finally, also I added a new button style for it. Can you download MediaWiki extension for the project? Thanks!
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  13:46, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

It's still waiting but Scratch Wiki Adventure is finished as final. Can someone from admins download MediaWiki extension to Wiki? As a reference, I'm added that link to here.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  17:30, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm so sorry about post that again, but can you run MediaWiki extension in Wiki?(because I posted two weeks ago and that's still waiting). You can also take a look to the project's talk page.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  18:57, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I saw your second message in this topic ("It's still waiting") and I actually did attempt to install the extension then; however, I ran into some problems, because our MW version is no longer supported by the latest release of the GuidedTour extension, nor by its dependency EventLogging. Additionally, EventLogging requires a server of its own to be running, so I need to figure that out too, which is hard while I'm also studying for exams. Now, however, I don't have exams for another week, so I can devote more energy to it, which I'll start doing today.  Doing...
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  11:59, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

OK, thanks for informing me. I didn't know that. I'm sorry if I disturbed you.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  12:37, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Nah, sorry for not saying anything sooner. Not disturbed - I have to deliberately go on to the Wiki to check it, so if anyone was disturbing me it was myself :P
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  12:47, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Okay, I think I've successfully installed it (?tour=test worked). Let me know if you need anything more from me. Some tips:

• Use ?uselang=qqx to find out where the MediaWiki: pages that control the text of things are.
• Inspect Element is your friend.
• Since the version I've installed is from October 2016, make sure to switch to versions of documentation at or before then when reading it

Good luck!
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  13:40, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

GuidedTour is working for me. Thanks for all of your helps.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  14:00, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

I read cheatsheet of GuidedTour again, and I need to create a page in MediaWiki: prefix, right? A note to myself: First, I must create GuidedTour in my Sandbox with definition of text variables, then post it to Community Portal.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  14:25, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Question on posting

Hello! I was wondering how to make an individual post. I currently want to make a tutorial on how to calculate FPS in animations. However, I am having trouble finding where you post. Thank you for your time!
TinkerGamez (talk | contribs) 19:30, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello, and welcome to the Scratch Wiki! I'm not Ken, but I can answer your question. Assuming that what you mean by "posting" is creating a page, you can do so here. Please read that page before you do so, though, and ensure that your page follows the New Page Policies. Also, please don't create your page if it has very little or no content when you begin; pages like that may be deleted. It may be a good idea to draft in userspace beforehand. Good luck, and thank you for being so enthusiastic about editing the wiki! We're excited to see your contributions!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 23:18, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

The mystery of the Help:Welcome tutorials

Hi Ken, I hope you're doing well. I was going through the Help:Welcome tutorials and improving whatever I saw that needed to be improved. While I was doing this, I noticed something odd. These pages reminded me of Wikipedia and its aspects. For example, all of the headings were written in sentence case, not title case (I've fixed them now). Now, yes, yes, I know that this isn't enough to "remind me of Wikipedia," but here's another example: previously, the examples on Help:Welcome/4 didn't use scratchsig (look in the recent page history).

So I did some investigation, and it turns out my suspicion was at least semi-correct. If you look at Wikipedia:Help:Introduction to talk pages/4, it uses almost the exact same example as Help:Welcome/4. Now, when I first saw this, I had plagiarism concerns; even though it's just a tutorial, I think copying and not attributing Wikipedia may be a problem (keep in mind, I am not a lawyer, nor an expert in Wikipedia's legal policies! This was just my suspicion). I was thinking about what I should do about this, and thinking things like "would a post on the Community Portal voicing my concerns be sufficient?".

So I did some more investigation, but this time it was in the form of copying some text from the Help:Welcome tutorials to my clipboard and doing a web search. Turns out, a lot of other wikis use some of the exact same wording as our tutorials, but replacing our wiki-specific stuff with their wiki-specific stuff. This kind of relieved my concerns about plagiarism, as now I thought it might be a MediaWiki thing or something like that.

But the problem is, these tutorial pages were not created when the Scratch Wiki began—they were created by a Wikian named Mrsrec in January 2014. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything in the early page histories hinting at where that user got the text from.

Anyway, I'm sorry for that very long buildup, but my question for you is: do you know anything about these pages, and where they originally came from? I know that you weren't on the wiki in January 2014 (and I wasn't either; I joined in October 2014), but you certainly know a lot more about MediaWiki and the technical side of things than I do. As I said, I thought that this could be something that is provided by MediaWiki as a sort of "boilerplate tutorial."

In the beginning of this "mini-investigation," I had legitimate concerns, but not as much anymore (for the reasons I mentioned above). If you don't know anything about this, that's fine too. I'm sorry for taking up your time. Also, I hope I'm not missing something and the answer is really obvious. Then I would have just wasted my time.

Also, I didn't post this on the Community Portal because I felt it was not related enough to daily Scratch Wiki matters to post it there. (However, if someone other than Ken reads this, feel free to reply!)

Best regards,
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 04:57, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Oh, by the way, if you don't want to read something this long or don't care to look into it or reply, that's fine too.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 05:04, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

As far as I know there isn't a boilerplate tutorial in MediaWiki, so our welcome tutorials are probably modified from Wikipedia. If so, that's not plagiarism, it's legitimate adaptation, because Wikipedia, and we, are under CC BY-SA. It's disturbing to me that Mrsrec created the tutorials, though, because there's a bad history with that one. Still, legally it's 100% fine.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  07:12, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I think like Ken. This wiki is applying one of the CC BY-SA licenses, so someone can apply every CC BY-SA licenses(they are compatible with all of CC BY-SA licenses). Nobody don't need supply it for every use, that's some kind of "their choices". Legally, there isn't a problem now, but if Wikipedia warns us - however, that's nearly impossible, internet is a huge world - we must add a notice.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  09:35, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Interesting. Thanks for replying. I still find it odd that other non-Wikipedia wikis use the same tutorials, though. I thought you had to attribute Wikipedia though?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 12:48, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

• First answer: Yes, sort of.
• Second answer: No, because of Wikipedia's general rules, you don't need mention as I know. Also, I said in OP, nobody wants to warn every wikis individually.
• Third answer: There is international laws like fair use or Berne Convention, but I don't think they are working fully compatible. Also, if you take a look Wikipedia's policies, they allow copy-paste to another place.

In conclusion: Wikipedia's legal status isn't clear so much because they're using multiple licenses+their own rules+includes anonymous and problematic articles/edits. Some of countries banned Wikipedia in the past because of that. As final, I think there isn't a problem for now - without if they change the rules, but I don't think so - We can use without mentioning Wikipedia for now. For example, Scratch Wiki is using Wikipedia with interwiki link.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  18:57, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure you're right about "you don't need mention as I know," at least according to the "Attribution" section of Wikipedia:WP:Copyrights#Reusers' rights and obligations.

However, again, I'm not sure there is a problem, because many wikis use the same tutorials as us. I thought it could be something built-in to MediaWiki, but Ken doesn't think so. Perhaps it's something like that, but more subtle? Like, some pre-written tutorials that anyone can use for their wiki and Mrsrec just found? I'm really not sure, though I'm not as worried anymore about copyright (as I said in my original post).

Also, I am dedicated to keeping this emoji as the only emoji that is used in this conversation:
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 19:16, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Alright, Ken and ahmetlii, look at this: Help:Tracking Changes

Now compare it to this: Wikipedia:MW:Help:Tracking changes

I guess we can confirm that this was a pre-written page for wikis based on MediaWiki now (and look! it's in the public domain, so no attribution is necessary), though I'm still not sure about the Help:Welcome tutorials.

This helps me, though, because now I know of this: Wikipedia:MW:Project:PD help

So there are sets of tutorials (in the public domain) provided by MediaWiki for new wikis— so I was partially correct. Again, I'm still not sure about the Help:Welcome tutorials specifically, though. Did either of you know about this?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 19:46, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I can't see any similar tutorial with Help:Welcome.

I know that some of technical articles copied from MediaWiki (and I'm using it for information, MediaWiki has the best resources for Wikitext and server-side PHP-Wiki collaboration). However, lots of MediaWiki articles are created by Wiki system, and you cannot see their histories and cannot edit it (except admins). Help:Welcome is probably created for helping new users inspired from Wikipedia, like Scratch Wiki:Scratch Wiki Adventure but I think anybody will not need them so much in a near future - extensions are developing for Wiki's every years. I think this topic is probably  Closed.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  21:24, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

My new template

Hi Ken, I'd appreciate it if you could tell me what you think of User:Bigpuppy/UpDown, my new template. It was inspired by this template on Wikipedia, though I didn't take any code from there.

You don't have to give me feedback, but you've given me feedback on my templates in the past, so maybe you enjoy it!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 05:15, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Oh, and also, I already know of the issues with viewing it on vector.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 05:23, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Your methods are sound, but what's the idea behind leaving so much space between it and the side of the page?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  08:16, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

As a second note, up/down buttons isn't working good on mobile. I think the buttons' place should be at right middle.(I'm talking about mobile phones, tablets, etc. If you look to Ken's screenshot, you will see that it's cropped from a computer.)
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  08:59, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Ken, that's so it shows up nice beside my sidebar. Maybe I'll add a parameter to change the position. Ahmetlii, ditto.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 14:29, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Hmm, I just realized that it's not responsive, so it may not show up nice next to my sidebar on some screens (not just mobile screens, but also desktop/laptop computer screens).
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 14:37, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Ahmetlii, I see that you edited your post multiple times — however, I already understood what you meant the first time. As I said, maybe I'll add a parameter to change the position.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 14:45, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Ahmetlii, Ken, it now has parameters and documentation for how to move it wherever you want on the screen. What do you think?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 15:20, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Looks like good, but I'm not sure about CSS page documentation; .updown isn't working.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  17:54, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Really? It's working for me.. Have you done a hard refresh?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 17:55, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Hard refresh is hard in mobile and special CSS pages aren't working accurately. If it's working for you, there's not a problem.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  18:02, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Ah, okay. (Also, please don't edit my posts, no matter how minor the edit; I put two periods for a reason )
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 18:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

As of writing, you have exactly 12,000 edits!

Congratulations!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 19:59, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

I realized that this record won't be breakable for another five years...
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  20:08, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Making a couple edits to blow me past it... 11000 and 12000 now recorded! Yay me
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  10:20, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

Scratch Wiki talk:Community Portal#Logging server faults

I realize that this is the fourth topic in a row I've posted on this page, and no one else has posted one in-between, but...

What do you think about having a separate page for Scratch Wiki talk:Community Portal#Logging server faults? I've collapsed it so it takes up less space, but that won't help the CP loading time, and since it's a  Never done topic, it will only get larger. Multiple people have voiced their support for a separate page there too.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 22:55, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

 Moved
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  09:39, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 00:10, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

S:USERSPACE

Hello! I was confused where in S:USERSPACE it says "Even if it is your own page, you are not allowed to edit the messages of other users or remove them unless removing the entire thread or a disrespectful message". Does "thread" refer to a topic or the whole user talkpage? For convenience, please reply at https://en.scratch-wiki.info/wiki/User_talk:Garnetluvcookie#C2.A0Awaiting_response:_Special:Diff.2F252306 if another EEW or admin hasn't replied yet. Thank you!
Garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 21:35, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

 Resolved
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 22:04, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

CPSYS

Sorry if you're busy but would you mind checking S:CPSYS if you have time? Thanks
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 19:01, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done, thanks for bringing it to my attention and soz for neglecting it for so long lol
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  07:04, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! Sorry for bothering you.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 16:07, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Is this allowed?

Could you check out the discussion here please (and respond over there)? Thanks!
Groko13 (talk | contribs) 22:56, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

 Responded
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:55, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

 Thank you!
Groko13 (talk | contribs) 03:21, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Revdel

Can you please revdel Special:Diff/240183 (and its summary) and Special:Diff/240737 per personal information concerns?
I hope I didn't mess up the automatic curator announcements by removing it from the actual page, but judging by Talk:Curator (front page)/List of Curators#regarding -TheGreenNinja-'s shift, I think it's okay since I just edited the footnote (not the actual list).
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 14:58, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Actually, I now realize that to fully remove it from the page, you would have to revdel all the revisions from Special:Diff/240183 to Special:Diff/252717. I'm not sure how major the concerns are, but I think that's what it would require.

Za-Chary just asked someone to remove it from the page, but I think personal information concerns warrant RevisionDelete.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 15:24, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done - I hid the text of most in between and also hid the summary of the one that introduced the old name (since the name is included in the update summary)
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  08:10, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 16:31, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

my Signature

Pretty much over my whole time on the wiki, my signature is misbehaving. It is probably my error but I was wondering if you know why it is

• Aligning itself to the left all the time
• Reverted back to the default
• Doesn't show the timestamp sometimes

ContourLines (talk | contribs) 09:13, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Did you use Special:Preferences for the custom signature? If not, please copy-paste {{User:ContourLines/Signature}} to "New signature" section, then click "Treat signature as wikitext".
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  09:18, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I did all of that. It was mostly because of wikimarkup errors and where I was siging my posts
ContourLines [ Talk ~ Contributions ~ Directory ] 18:08, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Can this be moved to project space?

User:Bigpuppy/Discussion Invitation System

I drafted it in my userspace, but now I think it might be ready to be moved to project space. Several people have showed their interest for the system by signing up for it. Here is the relevant CP discussion. I don't know if you've seen it.

Thanks!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 23:22, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Also, I'm not sure whether I need approval from a bureaucrat for something like this, but it's good to be safe.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 23:28, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

(sorry for bothering you again by the way)
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 23:35, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

 Thank you! I've de-userified/improved some of the pages to match the move.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:47, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Wait, why a Scratch Wiki Project for this?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:48, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, isn't it finished?
Groko13 (talk | contribs) 02:52, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Argh, I was making my own edit to the page when you came along.

This totally deserves a SWP! I think the only point of contention is that I guess it could be considered  Done rather than  Not done as it's currently marked, since there's not too much more to do. You can change that if you want.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  02:55, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for clarifying. I'll mark it as  Done. Also, I re-added Groko13's message. I'm not sure if you were going to do that.

Sorry for the edit conflict. I kinda figured that might happen.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 03:00, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Can I remove the SWP box from Scratch Wiki:Discussion Invitation? It's kind of large, and the project is finished. Will removing it mess anything up?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 03:04, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

I see you added a width parameter; however, I still fail to see how including the template is necessary. Can we at least collapse it?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 03:14, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Can you please wait until I've responded before noting my changes??? If I hadn't previewed and noticed I had a message, your message would have been gone in an edit conflict.

I've made it narrower. Removing won't mess up anything, but I'd really rather keep it, since without the box the SWP is nothing. (Part of the reason for making it a SWP is because we don't have enough of them - it's a neat system that never gets used, so I jumped on the opportunity to use it.)
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:16, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, sorry; again, I thought that may happen. I guess I should have taken that as a red flag and just waited instead.

Anyway, can we at least collapse it?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 03:18, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Boi collapsing isn't the solution to everything. I literally said "without the box the SWP is nothing". I guess I could try to figure out an optional "small" format for the box that puts stuff in a table instead of in rows. That'll take a little more time, though.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:27, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Collapsing the box ≠ not having the box on the page. You could at least acknowledge my effort to find a compromise.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 03:30, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

I want all the information there, without having to interact to get to it. If you're collapsing it, you might as well just use a link to the /project page. I'll work on a small format, but for now my compromise is a narrower box.

What even is your issue with it? It's just a box - you can read the page perfectly fine.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:33, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Well, I guess I feel like having the box there still makes the page feel "unfinished" in a way. I don't mean literally unfinished, of course, but it still feels "unfinished." For example, how would Scratch Wiki talk:Community Portal/Admin Requests (or, an even more major example, Scratch Wiki:Guidelines) feel if it had that box on it? Yes, it would show the work it took to create those pages, but that's shown by the page history. After a Scratch Wiki Project is done, it becomes part of the Scratch Wiki in a way, and transcends its former status. I feel that the final stage for Scratch Wiki Projects should be either removing or collapsing the SWP box. Especially for a project like this, which didn't become a SWP until it was almost completely finished. In addition, this became a SWP partly because you don't think the system gets used enough, as you said. Is the template really that necessary for a project that didn't even really use the SWP system while it was being created? Does it really make sense to have the template stay on the page for the rest of that page's lifetime (or the wiki's lifetime, assuming the page won't ever get deleted)?

Of course, I can see a counter-argument you might mention; we might want to show not just the page as it is today, but what it took to get to the page as it is today. I still don't think that's a major enough reason, though, because of the following:

1. You can just look in the page history.
2. If we just collapsed the box, you could just un-collapse it to view it.
3. I still think the con(s) that I have mentioned outweigh the pros of showing the box to everyone who visits the page.

To summarize: Yes, it is just a box. And it's a box that I just wrote an essay about. However, if we do use the SWP system for many things, do we really want that box on every page that has gone through the system? I personally don't think it's necessary. It's like leaving the scaffolding on a building after it's fully-built. I feel that SWPs should go through some sort of "graduating" phase where the box is either removed or collapsed.

It's pretty late in my timezone, so I have to sign off now. However, I hope that through my points above you can understand why I think the box should be either removed or collapsed. Thanks for everything you did to improve the Discussion Invitation System! I hope it can help to speed up the rate at which things get done on the Scratch Wiki. Have a good rest of your day.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 03:59, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Something like this? Of course, there is probably a way to make it smoother.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 15:29, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

I've removed the SWP status from Discussion Invitation but ignored your arguments. Let me quickly mention, though, that the only reason it wasn't a SWP during creation was because I wasn't aware of its existence before it was completed and you just don't seem to care about SWPs at all.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  18:36, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

What? When you say you "ignored" my arguments, do you mean you didn't read them, or just decided not to take them into account? As for the claim that I "... just don't seem to care about SWPs at all", I'm afraid you're mistaken. I helped come up with the idea for SWPs in the first place, wrote most of the explanation page, and have participated in an SWP myself. Just because I didn't choose to make this one idea of mine an SWP doesn't mean I don't care about SWPs.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 18:55, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Isn't it funny that you've done so much for SWPs, and yet haven't actually started a single one yourself? Wouldn't this have been a great opportunity for one?

Anyway, I think we're not going to get anywhere with this conversation. The main issue in this topic is resolved. Start a new one if you want to pursue something further. This one is  Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:18, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Wait, before we end this conversation, can you at least answer my question about "ignoring" my arguments please?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 01:21, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

 Never mind, I created a new topic as you asked me to do.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 01:55, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

excs.writeapidenied problem

 Done

When using mw-api-client-develop version, I have been used Scratch Wiki's API params like auth extension, securelogin etc. Probably I exceeded API's query limit, however this is some of weird - cannot exceed it, Wiki is giving right up to 500 queries.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "...\mw-api-client-develop\custom python.py", line 22, in <module>
    sandbox.edit(contents, summary)
  File "...\mw-api-client-develop\mw_api_client\page.py", line 187, in edit
    result['result'] = self.wiki.post_request(**params)
  File "...\mw-api-client-develop\mw_api_client\wiki.py", line 225, in post_request
    return self.request(_post=True, **params)
  File "...\mw-api-client-develop\mw_api_client\wiki.py", line 153, in request
    raise getattr(WikiError, error['code'], WikiError)(error['info'])
mw_api_client.excs.writeapidenied: You're not allowed to edit this wiki through the API

 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  11:01, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Also, 404 error:

requests.exceptions.HTTPError: 404 Client Error: Not Found for url: https://en.scratch-wiki.info/w/api.php%22,%20%22PyUserScript%20version%200.2.1?action=query&meta=siteinfo&format=json

 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  11:21, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Also, I cannot list as raw for send invitations.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  21:31, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Regarding the original issue, are you logged in? You can't edit a sandbox if you're not logged in as some user. Use wiki.clientlogin(username, password) to do so if you don't know how to use bot passwords.

I have no idea what you mean by not being able to "list as raw for send invitations".
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  08:27, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

wikipedia:en:User:Yapperbot. It's working on Go and I'm trying to do it on Python for Feedback Request Service.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  15:13, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

If you're planning on making a bot for this wiki, please request it first! Don't waste effort making it if the idea gets rejected outright.

With that said, I recommend this library for parsing wikitext - you can use it to find (in S:DILIST) all instances of the template /item whose 1st parameter is not ExampleUser, and get usernames, frequencies, and conditions from that.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  17:14, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your helps. I'm not thinking develop a bot, just an user-based downloadable extension like AutoWikiBrowser, but only works in terminal. Maybe you saw my fork, but it's still in test. However, I will post to CP for rejection/applicable statements when it's ready.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  21:33, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Looks like it's still problematic. Everyone can see and run my code in here
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  15:29, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

It's more problematic than I think.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  18:41, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Never mind, it's done. Thanks for your helps.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  19:50, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

For shame, I didn't help you with this so that you could break guidelines! Please request a bot account for your purpose, or contact jvvg (talk | contribs) with your idea to see if it can be incorporated into WikiMonitor. You are only allowed to do a test implementation after the idea has already been approved.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  06:46, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry about that. I haven't any purpose/plan for break the Guidelines! Thanks again for warning.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  08:46, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

A new topic

Hello, Ken! I hope you're having a nice day. You said the old conversation is done, so I've created this new topic to facilitate new discussion.

When you have time, could you please address the following questions?

• When you say you "ignored" my arguments, do you mean you didn't read them, or just decided not to take them into account?
• Speaking of my arguments, do you agree with them? Do you disagree? Why?
• What do you think of this idea of collapsing the SWP boxes?

Take as much time as you need; although I would appreciate a response.

Have a nice rest of your day.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 01:54, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Ok.

• I didn't read them. I found your tone courteous enough to not be rude, but only barely so. No matter your intention, that's what I received.
• Some responses:
  • I find your examples of Admin Requests and the Wiki Guidelines invalid. Admin Requests is a subset of the CP, and has also never been really "worked on", and the Guidelines are documentation, not a project in any sense of the word; whereas even after the Language Tutorials are complete it's nice to record that "organized work was done here", unlike usual page history. You might make the 'never been really "worked on"' point about DI - and you'll notice that it's no longer a SWP.
  • Once a project, always a project. The box does not go away after project completion. However, the idea of collapsing it to just a title (as I describe below) appeals to me æsthetically. Play around with the template in a sandbox.
  • Nice simile with the scaffolding :)
• Since that's hack, it understandably looks terrible. A better solution would probably be to put the collapse link in the box header, and collapse to just the header. Incomplete projects (|status=<anything but {{done}}>) shall be uncollapsed by default, completed ones (|status={{done}}) collapsed. Copy the template code (minus category) to your sandbox and figure out a way to do that.

Sorry for being so curt. I had physical training but then also pulled a near all-nighter trying to figure out account request email issues, and today I had to wake up for summer class. Exertion + 18 hours of wakefulness followed by 4 hours of sleep takes a toll.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  04:07, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your prompt response! Although my message was not something that needed a prompt response (as I said in my original message, "take as much time as you need"), I certainly appreciate it.

• I apologize if you felt I was rude, or next to rude. I think I may have felt that you were not acknowledging my efforts to find a compromise, so that may have translated into rudeness. Again, I apologize and hope you can forgive me.
• Some responses to your responses:
  • I see what you mean with Admin Requests, though I disagree about the wiki guidelines. Scratch Wiki:Scratch Wiki Projects is pretty all-inclusive with the definition of a Scratch Wiki Project: "A Scratch Wiki Project (SWP) is a project on the wiki that one or more people work on. This could be an article in the mainspace, a Community Portal discussion that has something to work on, or anything else that would fit." In my opinion, documentation like the wiki guidelines counts. An SWP could be anything from the wiki guidelines (if SWPs had existed back then) to an article about the Stage. Also, I think that it is necessary to report that "organized work was done here", but it should not be immediately visible to the end user unless they are interested. Since you mentioned the Language Tutorials, I'll use them as an example: The end user might not care about how they were made; they just want to learn some Python. If the end user does care about how they were made, well, there's a "Page History" button for that. If a user is interested enough with how the page was made to find out about the Page History (assuming they didn't know about it before) and then look at it, I think they would be investigative enough to figure out that it was part of an SWP. From there, they could see the "organized work" that was done.
  • See above; I disagree that it should stay. I think that collapsing it might be a good compromise, though.
  • Thanks.
• I'll work on it.

I understand. I saw the test account request you sent through, though I didn't know that it was that big of an issue that you were solving.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 14:10, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

I was only prompt because you caught me waking up :)

I've edited the SWP template. How does this look to you, especially on the DI page?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:34, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

It looks good!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 03:51, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Glad you approve! I think we're both satisfied here then?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  16:20, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes. *shakes hand through internet* Again, I apologize if you felt I was rude at any point during either conversation.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 17:14, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

New Skin

Can you help design a skin that makes snapwiki.miraheze.org look like snap.berkeley.edu? I know you made the scratchwikiskin, and I would appreciate it. If not, can you give me someone who can help?
GrahamSH (talk | contribs) 00:32, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

You need Snap's website skin. Try to contact with Snap's administrators by forums, because it can cause plagiarism. You can see ScratchWikiSkin's codes.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  17:38, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

It's a semi-official wiki. I just have no idea how to make a skin.
GrahamSH (talk | contribs) 18:48, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

About designing a new skin, I think a lot of people can help(including me). Also, I saw that Snap!'s codes are open source. You need to implement it through the Wiki with root access - administration or bureaucrat - over Wiki. I cannot promise, but I will try to create a skin.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  21:14, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! I have admin access, but I would need to get the company that hosts the wiki to do it!
GrahamSH (talk | contribs) 23:26, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

I don't design things on request. Making SWS was a labor of love that I volunteered for, and it took two months, so I'd have to be very personally involved in Snap! before I would consider designing an entire skin for it.

That being said, I'm totally happy to answer any questions about the process of skin-making that you or Ahmetlii might have - I'm just not going to do the whole thing for you. I learned a lot when making SWS, and I wouldn't want to deprive you two of that :)
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  10:29, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! What is the skin coded in?
GrahamSH (talk | contribs) 14:05, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Also, I made a GH repo here:https://github.com/snapwiki/SnapWikiSkin
GrahamSH (talk | contribs) 14:23, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

TemplatesFTW

It told me to compress my images, but i already did
Col_Cat228 (talk | contribs) 13:31, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Look from its perspective for a moment. Looking at your uploaded image, is there any way for it to tell that you compressed it? Not at all - if it can still compress it further, then there's no way of knowing it was already compressed once.

In the future, you can include the word "compress" (in any tense) anywhere in your upload summary to let TFTW know that that upload has already been compressed. However, make sure that you actually have compressed it before uploading it.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  20:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)