Talk:Development of Scratch 1.0

Timeline missing something?

I looked at the timeline and there is no mention of the creation of Scratch 1.0 starting in 2003. I'm not sure how to add that because that year isn't in the box. Could somebody help?
Curiouscrab (talk | contribs) 22:25, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

timeline says different

The timeline says Scratch 1.0 was released in May, whereas this article says January. Which is right?
Curiouscrab (talk | contribs) 22:37, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

I believe the date in May is the public release, on scratch.mit.edu. However, the site was previously located on scratchr.org and while still not a public release, it existed. I think the version from May may have been 1.0.1, based on some evidence on an LLK page, whereas the January version was 1.0 proper. I haven't gotten information to confirm this yet, but I hope to soon.
veggieman001 (talk | contribs) 00:22, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Downloads

djdolphin found some downloads for pre-1.0 versions of Scratch: [1] Could someone add a link / more information here? :)
blob8108 (talk | contribs) 20:25, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I'll look into it!
ErnieParke (talk | contribs) 20:36, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I just realized that there's a small problem. I can't edit Development of Scratch 1.0, which means I can't add in more information. Maybe an admin could try updating the article, or move the protection level temporarily down to EW?
ErnieParke (talk | contribs) 15:13, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

There is no such level, so i put it down to autoconfirmed.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 15:18, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Veggieman001's back! And he's started updating Development of Scratch 1.0, so I won't start doing my updates till he's finished. Just throwing it out there.
ErnieParke (talk | contribs) 15:41, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Versions we have

So there's two versions that fit into this timeline, Oct 2004 and Nov 2006, that I have copies of. Since there's maybe more information (especially for the former) that would fit into just this page, should (at least the former) get its own page & stuff?
veggieman001 (talk | contribs) 16:16, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

I would say right now to just include it here, and if it gets too big, we can move it to its own page.
Scimonster (talk | contribs) 17:05, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

dropbox

Dropbox is not allowed on my PC, could you put the 0.x and the november 2006 beta on drive.google or docs.google?--
CaseyWolfgang (talk | contribs) 14:05, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Even earlier versions??

I remember discussing in a forum thread a clue that could possibly hint to even deeper roots past 0.1. It's shown here as a program entitled Building-Block Programming, which has a very similar concept to Scratch. Both projects (Scratch and Building-Block Programming) are/were led by Mitchel Resnick. The page originates on Waybackmachine to 2001, but there is the possibility of it going back even further. Could this mean that Scratch could have roots in the late 90s? We may never know, but I just wanted to put it out there that there is the chance of there being a version before 0.1.
Goldfish678 (talk | contribs) 02:21, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

I found this link that says, "Building-Block Programming was active from January 1996 to September 2003".
ssvbxx (talk | 416 contributions | Scratch profile) 20:03, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

Misleading caption?

In the "2005" section, there is an image with a caption that claims it was from January 2005. However, it includes the Green Flag and Stop Sign, which weren't included until May 2005. Should the caption be changed to fix this? ssvbxx (talk | 416 contributions | Scratch profile) 15:24, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Are you referring to this caption in the 2005 section, as it is the only one of the two images with a caption that contains January 2005. The other image, which does indeed have the green flag/stop sign, mentions nothing about from January of 2005; it could've been taken after the flag/stop sign were added.
KangaCoder ( talk • contribs • scratch ) 15:52, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

No, I'm referring to the other image, whose caption says, "The Scratch interface in the same version". Either both are from a later version or the two images aren't from the same version. ssvbxx (talk | 416 contributions | Scratch profile) 16:13, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

More proof that an October 2006 build exists

Some time ago, I found this video by jay. If paid close attention, the header suggests a Scratch build that was compiled on October 13, 2006 (13Oct06, or the October beta) and the appearance of the Scratch Cat, with some slight differences (maybe it's a beta version?). Should this be added to the article?
ssvbxx (talk | 416 contributions | Scratch profile) 21:51, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Long-overdue update: The 13Oct06 version was recently found, minus the Scratch Cat.
ssvbxx (talk | 416 contributions | Scratch profile) 23:31, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Concerning the numbering of the builds

Hey, it's me again.

Due to the huge number of pre-1.0 builds we have now, we decided to renumber all of them. Some builds are alphas/betas/RCs of other builds, however i will only be listing the 'final versions' (if that would even make sense lol).

0.1 - 11Oct03 0.2 - 25Feb04 0.3 - 08Jul04 0.4 - 13Oct04 (fun fact, the .image file of this build actually dates back to October 1, 2004) 0.5 - 28Feb05 0.6 - 26Jun05 0.7 - 16Dec05 0.8 - 16Jan06 0.8.1 - 16Jan06b 0.9 - 06Oct06

I hope the people over at the SW would update their pre-1.0 related pages to accomodate this change. (for alphas/betas/RCs, they'll go into their respective final version's pages)

Peace out!

MixelFanUTTP (talk | contribs) 06:45, 25 October 2022 (UTC)MixelFanUTTP

I think 0.x versions should just be referred to with their internal names (ScratchDDMMMYY, or just DDMMMYY for short), without verison numbers.
CST1229 (talk | contribs) 18:53, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

 Support for CST1229's idea.
han614698 talk • contribs (2,588) • profile 20:41, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

There are several versions that use DDMMMMYY instead of DDMMMYY. For example: 20Sept05 and 09July08.
MixelFanUTTP (talk | contribs) 08:52, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

I was originally going to write a post on how this entire list had no proof of these build's existences (aside from the ones already known), but then I looked at the original poster's contributions and found a download link to over 150 Scratch development builds totaling over 1GB zipped. Honestly, it's suspicious that only 6 development builds were known for years, and suddenly there's 180 total development builds, 97% of them being found seemingly overnight. This is improbable, unless every development build of Scratch was somehow found bunched together, or this was a years-long effort and the OP didn't make it clear.
ssvbxx (talk | 416 contributions | Scratch profile) 18:30, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

To ssvbxx, I would like to clarify that this is indeed what happened. On September 26, I stumbled across the site of an old developer of Scratch, located at https://web.media.mit.edu/~jmaloney/ Just out of curiosity, I decided to try and add a name of a known build, such as Scratch28May05.zip, and the website provided a download. Then, I and a group of friends decided to try every combination of ScratchDDMMMYY.zip (for example, Scratch22Dec04.zip), and that is how most of those builds were found. Later, it was discovered that adding -i, -a, -b, -Bi, or -Alpha to the filename (for example, Scratch01Jun08Alpha.zip or Scratch04Apr05Bi.zip), other builds could be found on the same site. Soon, it was also discovered that there were self-extracting .exe installers for late 2006 versions that were previously lost (for example, Scratch20Dec06.exe). Then, by contacting the developer, we got version Scratch11Oct03.zip, as well as some sample projects for that build via ScratchProjects1.zip.
Retro_person (talk | contribs) 21:19, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Alright, that makes sense. I tried looking in that very website for more Scratch builds, but I couldn't find any.
ssvbxx (talk | 416 contributions | Scratch profile) 00:36, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Internal Naming Schemes ("Scratch 0.1", etc.)

This is mostly for those who do not believe "Scratch 0.1" and "Scratch 0.2" were official names. As seen at the top-right of page 5 of this PDF by the MIT Media Lab published on January 30, 2004, the October 2003 version of Scratch is explicitly referred to as Scratch 0.1. Quote: "Implementation of the first prototype began in January of 2003, based on design discussions over the previous year. This prototype, Scratch 0.1, was tested in early October of 2003 by Harvard and MIT students taking a seminar course on the use of technology for learning in informal educational settings. This test lead to a redesign of Scratch (currently in progress)..." Furthermore, the next phase of Scratch development is also explicitly referred to as Scratch 0.2 in the same PDF (at the bottom-right of page 5 and top-left of page 6): "In fact, we realized that Scratch 0.1 actually encourages the construction of non-exchangeable objects. Scratch 0.2 will therefore disallow directly inter-object script invocation, and we are in the process of designing more loosely-coupled ways for objects to interact." I do agree with the notion of using ScratchDayMonthYear when referring to most versions; however, I believe it is appropriate to use the terms "Scratch 0.1" and "Scratch 0.2" when specifically referring to Scratch11Oct03 and Scratch01Oct04 (Scratch13Oct04 is a renamed Scratch01Oct04). In conclusion, the terms "Scratch 0.1" and "Scratch 0.2" were not made up simply due to the lack of a better name, but, rather, were real names used internally to refer to versions Scratch11Oct03 and Scratch01Oct04. [Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. :) ]
Retro_person (talk | contribs) 02:21, 16 December 2022 (UTC)