Talk:Commodore 64

Improving the article

the following feedback was originally posted the German CP, but I copy the suggestions here, because they are

1. helpful
2. belong to this article's talk page
   Frodewin (talk | contribs) 21:19, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

I like how the page sprung up out of nowhere with a lot of content. However, once again, we run into the problem of the English wiki's stricter guidelines:

• All content must be mostly related to Scratch. Though the title of the article is "Scratch and Commodore 64", the vast majority of the content is completely unrelated to Scratch and is only about the C64 itself. (What this means is that essentially the "Programming the C64" section is too large! It takes up more than half the article and is mostly unrelated to Scratch.)
• A couple of paragraphs were in German >:(
• Minor: the page is missing a lot of customs found on the English wiki (such as using a "wp" template for Wikipedia links and adding an "External Programs" template when there are external links). @Frodewin: it would probably have been better to draft the article in your sandbox and ask a more regular editor to look over it.

There are a couple of solutions:

• Remove the "Programming the C64" section entirely. This would solve the problem quickly, but is not ideal since programming the C64 is the whole point of getting it.
• Revamp that section to deal much more with direct comparisons between BASIC and Scratch. Additionally, remove the bits about PEEK and POKE, compiling, and file access, since the audience of the English wiki will very likely not know about low-level memory management, assembly language, or I/O. This would take a lot more effort, but would be the ideal solution as it captures most of the content while keeping it related to Scratch.

Meanwhile: translate the remaining German into English! I commented out the paragraphs in German for now.

Originally written by Kenny2scratch (talk | contribs) 13:34, 13. Nov. 2018 (CET), copied here by Frodewin (talk | contribs) 22:17, 13. Nov. 2018 (CET)

Thanks a lot for the suggestions! Sorry for the German part, this was actually a remainder from the original article, the translation of these two paragraphs was already there. I will look into the program section soon, I like your idea of adding more direct comparisons with Scratch.
Frodewin (talk | contribs) 21:19, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

I have added now Scratch block explanations to all the code pieces, which was really a nice idea. At first I thought that for some parts this will be impossible, but then I managed by referring to Scratch and to Scratch mods - I think the article now represents a nice way to educate readers about how the things translated to Scratch. I would like to thank you all for your constructive comments, which helped the article, which was already quite elaborated by a joint effort in the German Wiki, to be further improved.
Frodewin (talk | contribs) 00:12, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

English Scratch Wiki doesn't allow to mention about mods anymore, sorry.
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 05:08, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

No, we just don't allow individual articles for mods. Mentioning them is completely fine (and the link to a mod he used was to a mod page that was grandfathered in anyway).
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  10:14, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

With the recent changes (thanks to Jakel181 and Kenny2Scratch for their contributions) I think the issue of bringing the BASIC parts into relation with Scratch is now well addressed, could we have the the Wiki Standards template removed?
Frodewin (talk | contribs) 20:58, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

No problem! :) I think it can snice BASIC is relavent to scratch in the article now.
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 21:03, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

I think the article looks fine now, thanks everyone for your work! -
LiFaytheGoblin (talk | contribs) 19:35, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

I think we can remove the warning-box now from the top of the article. I will do it and it can be put back if anybody has an other opinion. Alright?
 MartinWollenweber  Talk  Contribs  Directory  19:38, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Is this really useful?

I believe this page is not useful, as the Commodore 64 is nothing to do with Scratch (in my opinion).
Jammum (talk | contribs) 16:31, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

I think the article is very usefull and the relation between C64 and Scratch is completely explained in the article. To somebody who has no knowledge about the history of some of the older Scratchers from the 1980tys that come from the C64-scene that matter must seem new, but exactly that makes it worth to be explained. Also there is still a communty of C64 fans that did not get that Scratch is the natural succesor of it: This article can drew their attention to Scratch so they could be convinced to join the Scratch community and use and recommand Scratch to the young generation. So it's also a perfect article to create more understanding between different generation of Scrathers. In the de:Scratch-Wiki:Scratch Club we made the decision to feature the german version of this article at the next Wiki-Wednesday (perhaps because me and frodewin are two of that Scratchers with 64er roots ;-)
 MartinWollenweber  Talk  Contribs  Directory  20:01, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Reading the article, the C64 has plenty to do with Scratch (essentially there was something similar to Scratch in the 1980s made for the C64). However, a large section of the article is unrelated to Scratch, a problem I mentioned in an above topic which Frodewin says he will look into. I think it should stay as long as the "Programming the C64" section is either removed or revamped.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:18, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

I think the "Programming the C64" section should be commented out until it is revamped or decided to be deleted.
Jammum (talk | contribs) 16:05, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

I would not comment it out, because currenty there is a lot of feedback created from other wiki users that help improving the article. Keep in mind that this is how a Wiki works, articles improve and get polished by having other Wikians working on it. The article itself currently has a Category:Wiki Standards tag, so readers anyway will be made aware that the article is still in an improvement phase. Please also give us some time to work on this, this article is a couple of days old and already in a good shape. It is definetly the freshest out of the other 35 listed articles that do not meet Scratch Wiki's standards: Category:Wiki Standards
Frodewin (talk | contribs) 16:14, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Agreeed the Category:Wiki Standards tag shows the article is still being worked on and should not be commented out.
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 17:04, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Can y'all stop using external links to internal pages?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:00, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Links fixed.
Frodewin (talk | contribs) 08:52, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  08:55, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Also fixed link.
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 17:01, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Should other programminglanguages like COMODORE BASIC be described?

yes
 MartinWollenweber  Talk  Contribs  Directory  20:49, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

I agree, It can be compared to scratch. If it can't be mentioned because it doesen't relate to scratch then why do we have this Language_Tutorials
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 21:04, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

A tutorial about BASIC itself (rather than the C64) should be a language tutorial. Go ahead and create Language Tutorials/BASIC/Introduction (or a better title), making sure to follow the conventions you can observe from other language tutorial pages. Also create Category:BASIC Tutorials to put the tutorial in. Whoever wants to take this up should add their name on the top topic on Talk:Language Tutorials.

(I should document the process, I'll do that later)
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:21, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

What happened to the images?

All the images on this page are gone. Have they been deleted or is there an error?
asqwde talk | contribs 19:27, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

UPDATE: I have just found one of the images. File:C64waveBASIC.gif it says the file is missing. Is anyone else seeing this?
asqwde talk | contribs 19:29, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Interwiki graphics linking does not work at the moment. That file was originally uploaded on the German wiki, our Wiki is configured that graphics can be reused accross Wikis. Something broke there, I already wrote into the community portal about this. Hope it gets fixed soon, there is Scratch Day and Austrian Commodore Meeting next weekend, two communities that might be interested in the article :-)
Frodewin (talk | contribs) 22:15, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

YESS. Ken has just fixed it :D
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  02:37, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Should the Section Scratch Projects with References to C64 be removed?

Most if, if not all of the Scratch Projects with References to C64 section is about user generated content. Should that section be removed?
Bobcat0701 (talk | contribs) Insert generic signature here. 03:35, 16 November 2023 (UTC)