Scratch Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive 92

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Community Portal Archives

References and Profile Comments

I've seen lots of people use profile comments from ST profiles as references in the wiki. However, when trying to click on them to check the source, it takes FOREVER to load in some browsers, especially if it's an older comment. Scratch has to load in every single comment on their page, and if it's old, that'll be a lot of comments to load. I think instead we should take screenshots of the comments, and upload them to the wiki. We could use those as references instead, no?
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 02:17, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

I think it's good to have a link to the comment for reference, but I wouldn't mind putting a screenshot in too somehow.
Hamish752 (talk | contribs) 02:56, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

That works better, actually.
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 03:03, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Screenshot is probably better than waiting 10 years for a profile comment to load. However, it can also get annoying if we start having to put the screenshot on the page just to prove it. It would almost be better if we could take the screenshot, upload it to the Wiki, and then reference the image itself. So it would actually be a reference that points to an image on the Wiki, which sounds weird but I can't think of any better option unless a different image host is used to host the screenshot, but then it may potentially be overwritten, deleted, or be hosted on a site with inappropriate content.
05:12, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

I have a slightly better idea. How about we have, for once, an actual format for references? So we do something like 'Paddle2See. (25/7/2017). "I think this glitch is caused by this issue." <link>' This way we can see the original comment (or at least the relevant bits) while still having a link if people need to see proof. We could add this guideline in Help:References. What do you guys think?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  13:51, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

@Turkey3 I meant for it to be like that, yes, instead of having images in the references. It could also have the original link to the comment on the file page. @Kenny2scratch That, too, sounds like a great idea. It's better than just a really long loading screen. XD
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 14:53, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

You aren't able to reference an image on the wiki? I thought you could. That does seem like a good solution to me if we do it.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 14:55, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘It just seemed weird to me. It's almost like referencing yourself in a way. Ken, I don't quite frankly understand your suggestion. If we say "Paddle2See. (25/7/2017)" that doesn't really tell anything as we still need to reference what he said on that day, which is when we use <ref> tags. And that leads right back to the problem of a comment never loading because it is 100 pages down on their profile. What could be done is a double reference, so upload a screenshot and reference that screenshot, and then right after make a second reference with the link to the actual source of the screenshot, the profile comment.
18:40, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

I fully agree with that, @Turkey3. Linking to a screenshot, and then linking to the source, is probably the best way to do that. The source on the screenshot can prove that it hasn't been modified with Inspect Element in any way before taking the screenshot, and it'll be easier to read without a large loading time. It could be a progressive change, though; after all, there are lots of articles where comments are referenced, but as we find them, we can add them in as screenshots over time.
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 19:08, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

@Turkey3 I don't think you read the full reference format. I'll put it down here:

Paddle2See. (25/7/2017). "I think this glitch is caused by this issue." <link>

We have the relevant bit of the comment after the date, before the link. That, then, would go inside <ref> tags. Get it?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  02:51, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

But what if you really don't want to type the actual quote into the article? I like it better when references are references and remain as those teeny square boxes with numbers. Once you start inserting the actual reference itself into the paragraph it can mess with the flow.
04:45, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

When you put content inside <ref> tags, the only place it shows up is inside the <references/> tag! So here:

Goes to here:

Paddle2See. (25/7/2017). "I think this glitch is caused by this issue." <link>

Got it?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  06:54, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

I like that idea.
16:36, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

So, we have two great ideas; should we do this change, and if so, which one should we use? The reference to an image, with a screenshot, or @Kenny2scratch's way of typing out the quote itself as a reference, with a link to the source?
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 16:50, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘I think Ken's idea works best.
21:24, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

I like Kenny2scratch's idea too. It gives you the needed information easily.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 15:39, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

So, should we slowly start converting references to the way @Kenny2scratch came up with, or should we hold off for a little while longer?
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 16:08, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

That depends on whether we were planning on using an official citation method or not. :)
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 18:42, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

We seem to have already agreed on using one, and were just coming up with a method. Now that we (apparently) agree that the method I suggested is best, I think I'll add that as a regulation in Help:References.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  06:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

We could come up with our own, or use a more official citation form such as MLA, Chicago or APA.
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 23:17, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

@Makethebrainhappy We've already decided on the format; it is as follows:

Paddle2See. (25/7/2017). "I think this glitch is caused by this issue." <link>

I would say this is now  Done, as it's also on the "Help:References" page.
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 02:22, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Yes, I added that there. This (very long) topic is finally  Done.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  02:38, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Update: I found this :P. Also, I updated Help:Welcome/3 to let people know that there's a format.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  00:45, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

SDS helpers

I noticed that on the wiki, we don't have an article for SDS helpers. If you don't know what they are, they are people who are seen helping around in the current SDS, and are invited to curate by one of the SDS curators with the job of adding projects and answering questions.

I am thinking that we should note them on the wiki, since despite not being an official rank, they do exist, and can commonly be confused with SDS curators given that they curate SDS'.

I was asking here if you think we should make a new article for this, or if we should instead add them as a section in SDS Curators. Also, if for any reason you think that we shouldn't do this at all, it's good to check in here first.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 21:06, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

I definitely don't think they should have their own article, as I don't think we would be able to find enough information about them for a whole article. The problem is, there is that kind of SDS Helper, and then there is the other kind, which is just unofficial people who like to help out in the SDS. So there are kind of two definitions.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 01:20, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Anyone else got an opinion on this?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 01:26, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

I would add a section on the SDS page about the official ones who curate the studio. Both defintitions could also be clarified, but I do not believe that this really requires a new article. That would probably cause more confusion :).
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 04:08, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

I second that. Also, I don't think there is enough information out there for a whole article.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 14:28, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Just to clarify, you propose that we have it on SDS rather than SDS Curator, correct?
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 23:41, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

I personally think we'd do it on SDS Curator because SDS Helpers and SDS Curators are so related. If you or Makethebrainhappy think otherwise, tell me
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 23:51, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Or anyone else, in fact
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 00:13, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Just contributing my bit here:

I think that SDS Helpers should be a section in SDS Curator, like most of you. However, additionally, I think that SDS Helper should redirect to SDS Curator#SDS Helper or whatever the section will be called. I don't think that the position is broad enough to warrant an article of its own, but that title can still redirect to the section documenting it.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:48, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

By unanimous decision, I have added in a section about it in SDS Curator. If any of you would like to look or improve it, just go there. I have not made the redirect page yet since I'm waiting for more approvals of the idea.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 12:43, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

@Kenny2scratch Yes, I agree. @Duckboycool Cool! I'll go look at it and see if I can add anything.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 13:39, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for helping all. I can't believe I forgot the duties of SDS helpers. It was the first reason I wanted to make the section .
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 15:07, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

You can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this is  Done since the section has been created on SDS helpers.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 18:14, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

We need a system for when to archive

Lately, with the election there has been a lot of CP activity. This has resulted in some long threads and irregular archive times. So I think we need a system for when we archive.

We have a few options:

• When the bytecount reaches a certain amount
• When the number of topics reaches a certain amount
• When the page takes a certain amount of time to load

So what do you guys think?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  11:18, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree, and think the best thing is when it's 125,000 bytes or over. This seems at about a good time to me.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 12:23, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

2 As a bytecount could archive an unfinished topic. (No, I literally mean a post half archived)
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 13:47, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

You wouldnt include the unfinished topics.
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 14:01, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

I'd go with #1 -- because there could be a lot of topics, or there could be not that many and they're really long, so it's the most universal between what could happen on the CP that makes it so long.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 14:30, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

I am marking this as  Not done as this will be archived very soon.

Edit:It was actually archived as I said this, and therefore unneeded, as this is still here anyway.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 15:36, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

We don't just naively archive the community portal. It's important to look over topics to check whether or not they're finished. :)

That being said, we have had a very inconsistent archive schedule, so a rule would be nice.

Archiving serves the main purpose of making it easier for wikians to see the current discussions in the Community Portal. The main challenge is how much dead content is there versus current discussion, which is difficult to measure.

So instead, archiving should be based off of load times, which is directly influenced by bytecounts.

@Duckboycool: 125,000 sounds about right.
ErnieParke (talk | contribs) 16:02, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ This topic is  Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  06:49, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Checking InterwikiBot

Hi everyone! I've rewritten the interwiki portion of User:InterwikiBot, seeing as PyWikiBot is broken. I've uploaded the bot proposed edits here: User:InterwikiBot/Proposed Edits

Can someone look over a few proposed edits and confirm they are valid?
ErnieParke (talk | contribs) 16:14, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Update. I got Jvvg to confirm everything looks good, so I will be officially running the interwiki portion of the bot now.
ErnieParke (talk | contribs) 16:53, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

This topic is  Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  07:01, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Editing not working

I am trying to edit my profile page, but nothing happens when I press the pencil. What has happened?
Eco fox (talk | contribs) 03:50, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

When you press the pencil, a list of things to do will pop up. Choose "Edit".
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  04:05, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Sometimes, if the page takes a really long time to load, then the pencil buttons will not show for awhile.

If this problem persists, try switching to a different skin in your preferences > Appearance. I recommend Vector.
ErnieParke (talk | contribs) 04:42, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

"I recommend Vector" well Vector is the only skin available besides SWS so that should be obvious... But in all seriousness the SWS has multiple problems while Vector has none of those.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  05:35, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

It isn't the website because I tried it on another device. I am on Vector now. Thanks for telling me! It works!
Eco fox (talk | contribs) 05:46, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

No problem! This is  Done now.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  05:55, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

A new namespace for AF pages

 AF pages are now under Scratch Wiki:April Fools.

As most of you probably know, jvvg is going to become inactive after the summer. One question that currently stands related to that is: who will manage the AF pages?

I have an idea. Instead of the AF pages being under somebody's userspace, how about we create a new namespace (probably AF:) and move all the AF articles to it? This would make it a) kinda more accessible since it's easier for editors to look for "AF:Scratch Wiki Home" than "User:Jvvg/AF/Scratch Wiki Home"; and b) it would be more SW community-oriented, since there wouldn't be any person controlling the entire thing (still with admins and EWs moderating, of course!).

So what do you think?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  10:03, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

So you think a project page specifically dedicated to it. If so, that seems like a good idea to me. It always seemed weird to host them on userspace before even. We'll just have to get permission from jvvg to move all of AF pages from his userspace.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 12:42, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

No, not a project page. I’m thinking an entire namespace for AF pages, as in the AF version of Scratch would be located at AF:Scratch. There would be a project page documenting the AF phenomenon on the SW, but it would not contain any of the pages; the pages would be in the AF namespace.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  13:47, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

I see...yes, it is kind of weird that it's under a userspace. +1 from me!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 15:20, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Oh, it was under a userspace? I wasn't here until after AF, but I think it's a great idea! It would definitely be more accessible to people who want to add more to it, as well. +1
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 15:52, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ The reason that I put the AF pages under my userspace is that in the event of a dispute (of which there have been several), I could act unilaterally rather than having to seek the approval of other editors. This has made dealing with issues a lot simpler and faster, and since these are joke pages that are only shown once a year anyway, it didn't really hurt anybody that they weren't democratic in the way that the mainspace articles are. However, I do intend to become significantly less active later this year, so that does raise the issue of who will continue to monitor these. One option is transferring them to another user, but then we run the risk that the new owner will also become inactive and then we will have to repeat this process all over again. kenny2scratch suggests instead making a separate namespace. This does seem like a good idea, but let's just quickly go over the issues I have with that:

• Technical: making a new namespace requires changing LocalSettings.php, so we would need to ask a Scratch Team member to do that for us, and I can't guarantee that they will approve
• Official?: By making a dedicated namespace, we are showing that we are treating these officially. Is that the message we want to send?
• Moderation: Since the AF pages don't have actual objective factual basis, they are more prone to disputes. As I said above, since they are in my userspace, I can act on them without having to use any sort of discussion if necessary. By putting them in their own namespace, then we will have to engage in actual discussions to deal with it unless we agree as a community that EWs and admins can act without community approval on AF pages (my main point here is that we would need to establish whether or not we want that).

I'm just raising these issues (please don't misconstrue this message as saying I am 100% against the idea, I just want to make sure everybody is aware of this), but if the community approves, we can go through with it.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 17:48, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

You raise some very good points. Here are my views:

• Technical: Well, there is no harm in asking (in my opinion). If they don't approve we can try to think of something else.
• Official?: Not exactly sure what you mean here, as it's just a bunch of April Fools' jokes.
• Moderation: Personally, I think it'd be okay if EWs/admins could act on them without a discussion, as they are EWs/admins, and I don't think AF pages need the same treatment as regular pages, because--as I said--it's just a bunch of April Fools' jokes.

So yeah. Those are my views, and personally I think a new namespace for the AF pages would be a good idea.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 18:13, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

About the officialness, what I mean is that by them not being in a userspace, users not familiar with the Wiki may see them as more official than they are. However, we could probably deal with that by just having a template that we put on all the AF pages explaining what they are.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 18:32, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Yes, a template could help. Maybe on the template a link to a page explaining AF pages in further detail?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 18:37, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

• Technical: The Scratch Team has done their own pranks on the website; I'm sure they'd be fine with letting us do our own here.
• Official?: Sure, the AF pranks on the website were official; why shouldn't these be? A template would work though; my idea of one is here
• Moderation: As per @bigpuppy.

And we would have a page at Scratch Wiki:April Fools' (shortcut, of course: S:AF) explaining what this is about.

Just my opinions
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  06:49, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

I also agree with what Kenny2scratch said.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 13:41, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

We've done the April Fools thing every year, this isn't the first year.
17:14, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ All of you make good points. If we use the template and agree that EWs and admins can act unilaterally on April Fools' pages, I can see it working. Just remember that I am not leaving immediately and will still be around at least through the end of the summer and maybe through the end of the year (depending on how busy I am), so we don't need to hurry anything and have time to think about it.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 19:37, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

@jvvg Do we label this as {{not done}} then?
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 20:37, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

So, our plan of action is as follows, then:

1. Get scmb1 or anyone with server access to add the AF: namespace
2. Move all AF pages to the corresponding titles under the AF namespace (e.g. User:Jvvg/AF/Template:E -> AF:Template:E) — this can be done by WikiMonitor
3. Change Template:April Fools to point to AF:{{FULLPAGENAME}}
4. Create a new template (maybe Template:AF) with the content in my sandbox and put that template on every AF page
5. Create Scratch Wiki:April Fools explaining the AF phenomenon on the Wiki
6. Agree that EWs and admins can act unilaterally on AF pages

And we'll be done! This should take place some time (maybe one or two weeks) before jvvg leaves.

@WolfCat67: Yeah, I'll label it as not done because this will come into play later.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  09:27, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

That seems about right
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 15:00, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Actually, I think we should do the first three now... Thoughts?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  02:40, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

I'll go create Template:AF now then.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  13:11, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I've contacted scmb1 on her profile and explained what we're doing. It'll probably take her a few days to see it, but once she's added the namespace we can get on with transferring the pages. How soon do you guys think we should make Scratch Wiki:April Fools?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  06:53, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Change of plan: scmb1 says we should keep the AF articles as subpages of Scratch Wiki:April Fools.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  05:36, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

More on curator announcements

In addition to updating the front page (which we saw yesterday worked fine), WM now also updates the curator page and the list of curators. This means please do not update those pages yourself or WM may duplicate your work.

Just for anyone wondering, here's a basic technical explanation of the process:

• It finds the current curator by pulling the name from the news
• It checks that against the Scratch front page and sees if they are different
• If they are different, then it continues (otherwise it ends here)
• It determines the last curator and its sequential number (like 260 or whatever) from the most recent edit to the front page in the format "updating curator (X, #Y)"
• It puts in a new announcement at the beginning with the name of the new curator and the sequential number of the last curator plus one and trims the announcement feed to remain at 5 items
• It replaces the sequential number of the curator on the curator page
• It does the same on the list of curators, then breaks down the list and adds the previous curator to the end of that list, replacing the item of the current curator with the new one

This means that you cannot edit the following things without notifying me:

• Curator announcements on the front page
• The sentence "There have been X curators since the program started." on the curator page
• The actual numbered list of curators on that page
• The name of the current curator inside the "<onlyinclude>" tags
• The sentence "There have currently been X curators." on the list of curators page.

I will update those pages shortly to add comments explaining why. Enjoy faster and easier curator announcements!
jvvg (talk | contribs) 18:43, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Sweet! Will it add the future curators?
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 19:18, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes! Starting next Monday it will automatically update all three pages (the announcements, the curator page, and the list of curators).
jvvg (talk | contribs) 19:35, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Noice!
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 20:49, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Problem - the curator slot changes every Monday, and yet the date changed today, July 4, which isnt 7 days before and is also a tuesday. Random Question: does WM have ADMIN powers in order to update the FP?
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 21:01, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Actually, I think they made the protection level BOT+
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 21:05, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Ooh, nice! Go WikiMonitor!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 22:32, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Cool! I'm secretly glad that my idea of putting the current curator inside <onlyinclude> tags was a good one Finally, this will no longer be a problem!
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  06:54, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

The reason for the incorrect date was that I had to run it again on Tuesday to test updating the other two pages, and doing that required letting it add a new announcement to the news. I have since fixed it and as long as the curator is updated on Monday, this shouldn't happen again. Also, the protection level is indeed bot+EW+admin, so no, WM is not an admin.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 19:23, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

There’s another problem with the date: nickeljorn's message has no date (July , 2017)
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  11:04, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

That one's on me, not WM. Because of the testing I did on Tuesday it put in Tuesday's date, then I tried to fix it, and apparently did it wrong.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 14:53, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Well that's done now; I think this topic is  Done too.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  14:54, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

An offtopic page - a suggestion

My idea is: we have an offtopic talk page (maybe Scratch Wiki talk:Offtopic) for people to discuss things that are not necessarily related to the SW. This would be similar to the former Miscellaneous forum (split into TIRP/TIMC). During the brief time the Discord chat existed for everyone, the #offtopic channel was the most beloved.

The immediate advantages of having such a page are, as I see them:

• Better community bonding - Wikians can talk to each other about things they love, and get to know each other better
• More active users - users who come on just to use this page will still make useful contributions from time to time, and this could encourage inactive users to become active again

The immediate problems with having this page, that I can think of off the top of my head, are:

• Moderation - as will most suggestions, moderation is a problem. Who would be there to make things stay on topic (everybody, repeat after me: stay on topic, stay on topic, stay on topic!)? Who would close down threatening topics (such as flame-war-prone topics)? Currently, for this I see two possible solutions:
  • The admins and EWs - but we'd need a lot more
  • A new usergroup with powers related to talk page moderation - but this requires modification of LocalSettings.php
• Scratch Team's view - will this, in their eyes, actually be similar to the Miscellaneous forum? Or will they view it, too, as "unmoderated chat"?

I'm totally fine with this being rejected - the problems have no easy solutions. However, please do consider the advantages and ways to fix the problems.

With that, discuss!
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  13:37, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

So exactly like the CP, but for stuff not directly relating to the SW?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 13:44, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Basically.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  14:15, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

I always presumed that we used Kenny's talk page for these kind of discussions. :P
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 15:21, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Same, that's why I always stalked it. Well, one of the reasons.
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 15:41, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree. This section would really help with teambuilding on the wiki, especially with such a small group of active wikians.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 17:15, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I feel like the Scratch forums already serve that purpose well.
17:18, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

scmb1 has raised the issue before (clicky!):

“	I’d rather we tried harder to cultivate a spirit of inclusion rather than making the wiki feel like an exclusive “club”	”
– scmb1

By having a dedicated offtopic discussion page, we would once again appear more like an exclusive club. Remember that the reason that all of you are here is that you passed the test about how well you can edit the Wiki. It seems unfair to have other benefits associated with that on top of being able to edit the Wiki, and having an offtopic discussion page would do that. While the user talk pages are a place where some offtopic discussion occurs, the location in talk pages indicates it's unofficial and not Wiki-sponsored. Putting it in a central location on the Wiki shows that it is Wiki-sponsored. Additionally, I'm worried that we may have people who start submitting account requests just to join the offtopic chat, which would decrease the quality of account requests (and already the majority of the requests are less than excellent).
jvvg (talk | contribs) 19:34, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

I 100% agree with you on that, jvvg. The wiki is for editing, and talking about editing. Not off-topic chat. As you said, people would want to join the wiki to join the off-topic chat, when that is not at all the purpose of the wiki. If you'd like to talk about books, sports, videogames, or things you are creating outside of Scratch and the wiki, there are specific sub-forums for that in the Scratch forums.

https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/30/

https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/29/
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 22:32, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

...It's a bit gratifying that you guys consider my talk page such a place... @jvvg I totally understand what you mean. This topic is  Done now.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  09:12, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Wiki Top Bar Navigation

Do we control our top-bar navigation options?
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 15:33, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Are you asking about how the top bar hasn't changed yet on the wiki? If so, I believe it's just because it's hosted on a different server, and the ST hasn't updated it yet.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 15:43, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

I certainly hope it doesn't get updated. I still want easy access to the Discussion Forums from the wiki too.
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 15:55, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

As of now Scratch has 3 different headers. The front page differs from the forums and the forums differ from the Wiki.
17:09, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

The header is part of the skin which needs to be updated from the code. This means that only the Scratch Team can change it. Usually what happens is someone will post the updated code on GitHub and submit a pull request to the ST, and then they put the updated code on the server. I doubt that they would go and update it themselves, so this means that one of us needs to make the appropriate changes and pull request. If nobody does, it will remain as-is.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 19:21, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Well RIP "Discuss" bar for the main site. I feel like we should be included on the new "tips" page somewhere.
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 02:28, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘  There is a pull request on GitHub for this
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  00:51, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Just a Reminder to Everyone of Our Editing Conventions

According to Scratch Wiki:Editing Conventions, let me pull out the chunk I'm talking about:

I see a lot of you wanting to use the second person, so much in fact that nearly every article I click on from Special:Random, if I ctrl-f "you" I pretty much find many instances of it. In the future, please try to avoid using it. It's not the proper way to write something that is documenting something, because the reader is unimportant to the content of the article (I know that sounds cruel but it's true :P) and by using "you" it detracts from the article and puts focus on the reader.

I generally like to use "one". "One must..." instead of "You have to...". Passive is also good.
17:30, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, it's just sometimes difficult to make something other than "you" in some cases, such as inside of tutorials. I try to avoid it as much as possible.
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 17:34, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

I'll try to do that more from now on.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 18:07, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

@WolfCat67: Tutorials are allowed to use second person sparingly, so that you know.
ErnieParke (talk | contribs) 03:52, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

This topic is  Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  00:52, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Navigation Bar

Does anyone see the Discuss is still on the Wiki Nav bar?
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 22:41, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

May I refer you to the discussion two posts up.
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 22:44, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

You may...
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 23:25, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Haha
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 02:27, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  13:00, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Wiki Wednesday articles

I was going around, and I found the article Wiki Wednesday and the Wiki Wednesday/Articles subpage. After looking at them, I noticed that they weren't updated correctly. Most notably the main page which said that there were 10 so far rather than 15, and said the current featured article was Tips. (Which was two Wiki Wednesdays ago.) I was wondering if we could use bots to do this automatically every Wiki Wednesday. If this is too complicated to do for the little result, then I will be happy to take this up myself to update the two pages every month. Thanks for reading.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 16:58, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Bots are a good idea in my opinion...and since WikiMonitor updates the FPC, I can imagine it *probably* wouldn't be that difficult...? (I know nothing about bots and their programming so please correct me if I am wrong. ) I'm guessing that WikiMonitor could do something like that but I'm not jvvg so don't quote me on that.

But yeah. This idea gets a +1 from me!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 17:47, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I think we should just remove the count and list of featured articles entirely. When articles are featured they get {{featured}} on them, which puts them into Category:Featured Articles/Images; and that’s an automatically updated list.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  23:41, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Oh -- yes, maybe that's a good idea.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 15:41, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

 Doing... - needs someone to delete the subpage.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  13:00, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Well I think it's better if we don't delete it and just have a person update it since this is ordered better, and gives dates to articles. Plus the original page would still need to be updated, so it's not removing something that needs to be updated manually. But a EW will decide.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 13:25, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

I am deleting the page.
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 17:36, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘  Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  00:53, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Article on Tips Page?

Now that the Help Page has been removed and been replaced with the Tips page, should we make an article on the tips page? The Help Page article could stay as a historical reference kind of thing, because the Tips page includes different content and names and all of that. Or, should we just move Help Page to Tips Page, and chnage it up?
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 17:50, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I think that Help Page and Tips Page would stay as two different articles if a Tips Page article was made personally.

But the Help Page redirects to the Tips page now, as you added in the article.

https://scratch.mit.edu/help
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 17:57, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I added the {{obsolete feature}} template to the Help Page though.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 17:59, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I think they should be separate articles.
21:57, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Alright, I'll be making the article tomorrow sometime. Look out for it
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 23:57, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Okay! I will!

(Edit conflict with myself lol)
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 13:23, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Congratulations on double-clicking the save button by accident :P. I think this topic is  Done...?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  13:32, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Thanks xD
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 13:36, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

I made the article. This is now  Done, though it of course needs some improvements.
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 03:30, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Changing Subject template.

I was wondering if there was a wiki template that would note that the subject of an article has changed, and that if you are an editor, you should try to change it to match what it is currently. I was also wondering that if this template doesn't exist, should I make one for it.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 21:37, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Is {{outdated}} what you’re looking for?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  23:43, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes. Thank you. I knew I saw something that was like that.  Done
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 00:19, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Article of the Month -- redirects to the wrong page

When, on the home page of the Wiki, the "Read more" button is clicked on the Featured Article (which is about the semicolon glitch), the redirect goes to the wrong page. It instead goes to the Curator (front page) article.
Jokebookservice1 (talk | contribs) 00:12, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Actually, the featured article should be Curator (front page)...
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  00:39, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Semicolon Glitch was the last one, and they recently updated it to go to Curator (front page)
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 00:47, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Well, on Scratch Wiki Home/Featured Article, it still shows Semicolon Glitch! The Read More link goes to Article of the Month, which redirects to Curator (front page), the current featured article.

Not explaining myself very well... Semicolon Glitch is not the most recent featured article; Curator (front page) is. However, on the featured article page, it still shows Semicolon Glitch. ←That's the problem.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  00:55, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Let me see what I can do
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 01:46, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

I'll ask jvvg if I was supposed to remove the image portion, but it looks alright. I'd say that this is  Done
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 01:50, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I had earlier asked someone to make Article of the Month redirect to the Curator (front page) article because that's what it was, but I guess nobody updated that page.
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 02:54, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@Makethebrainhappy: The image was originally there so to have more images on the front page, making the wiki a little more inviting.

Thank you for updating the text though!
ErnieParke (talk | contribs) 02:32, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Watch the CP?

Just wondering, but can you add the CP to your watchlist? It would be cool to be notified of a new topic being posted.
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 14:44, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, you can. Just click the pencil icon and choose “watch” or whatever it is. I use vector so I don’t know the wonders of that icon.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  15:37, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

You can - it is on my watchlist.
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 15:47, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

@kenny2scratch Well I use vector too so... @customhacker How did you do it?
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 16:06, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Actually, ken, I just found out how to do it in Vector. Just press the star next to the 'View history' button and kaboom! It's on your watchlist.
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 16:09, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

I just hit the pencil and watch... in the normal skin.
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 16:18, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Oh, ok. I believe that this is  Done.
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 16:41, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Shortcuts?

Is it possible to create a custom shortcut to lead to, say, a user subpage?
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 20:56, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

It’s certainly possible; I’m not sure if it’s allowed. The only case I know of a page redirecting to a user page is that User:Mtwoll redirects to User:MartinWollenweber.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  23:09, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Userpages must be under userspace, so no, you are not allowed to create shortcuts to userpages. Sorry.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 02:09, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

don't mind me, just marking this as  Done here.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  12:57, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

@jvvg Ok. I was just wondering as it's annoying typing Drunken Sailor every time, and would be so much quicker to just type DS.
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 14:45, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

For your own userpage, you can click your username at the top right and then click the first item in the dropdown.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 15:29, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Scratch seems to be down

Scratchsig pics aren't working again, and I see this: [1].
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  13:54, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Yeah I saw the page also. The reason that ScratchSigs is down is since the Scratch server is down. We've already talked about that. Although for the front page, I think it's because the 3.0 pages are hosted differently than the rest of Scratch, so it is unable to load all assets that require data from the actual Scratch server. Why the explore tab works, I can't say.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 14:01, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Yeah... I see exactly the same thing, but without the cooking language on. If you try to go anywhere but the main page (for example, the discuss page), it will say they are having issues with their server.

The Discuss Page

(Edit conflict with Duckboycool )
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 14:05, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

They do know about it though, and have posted on twitter.^[1] Also, does anybody know why explore works?
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 14:17, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Isnt it a google custom search or something?
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 17:17, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Anyway, it seems to be up now.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  00:05, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 00:06, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

using first person in an article

This is a bit of a personal issue, but I just wanted to ask this for the sake of courtesy.

I'm currently trying to edit the MIDI Notes Wiki. When I was editing the article, I had this constant feeling like what I was typing was just... wrong. I don'y exactly know how to describe the feeling. Then I figured it out.

It was because I was typing in third person.

I'm so used to saying "I personally think..." or "In my opinion..." when speaking to others, but the thought of other people reading this article without me saying that just made me feel bad.

So, like the title of this article says, Is it okay to speak in first person? Of course, if it is not allowed, I will respect that rule and type in third/second person.

Thanks again if you reply.

XXKingdomHearts16Xx (talk | contribs) 03:27, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

You should use third person, not second nor first.
04:53, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Using third person (he/she/they/it) is always much preferred - articles should be impersonal. In rare cases, you may use second person (you) in tutorial or how to articles, but first person (I/me/myself) is absolutely wrong.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  05:41, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

From Scratch Wiki:Editing Conventions: "Avoid 'you' at all costs."
17:55, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Actually we are changing it now so second person is allowed on tutorial-type articles.
20:58, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Even then, try avoiding second person. Though its difficult, there are plenty of ways to instruct users without using "you". I actually haven't seen the word you being used in a manual now that I think about it.
DownsGameClub (talk | contribs) 01:13, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

A wiki article shouldn't include your opinions, it's meant to be objective. That's why you shouldn't use the first person.
Jokebookservice1 (talk | contribs) 09:34, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  00:54, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Reference Question

Do studio comments also receive the new reference format?
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 12:39, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes they should. Basically anything on the Scratch Website that could take a long time to load.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 13:26, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Things that should follow the format:

• Profile comments
• Studio comments
• Forum posts (archive or not)

And that's basically it.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  02:46, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Studio comments were not included on Help:Reference. I'll add it. :)
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 02:17, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

This is  Done
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 02:20, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I will be out for about two weeks

The title pretty much summarizes the message. In the more long-term, I will probably stick around until the end of this year, but I will let all of you know more specific plans as the time comes.

WikiMonitor will still be running, but I have it set on a timer where if someone shuts it off it will automatically try to restart four hours later if it has been re-enabled, so if anyone does shut it off, it will take four hours to start back up (still, please do not shut it off unless there is actually a problem).
jvvg (talk | contribs) 20:54, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

In that case, I think we should start AF change preparations. Yes?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  02:47, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Got it.
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 08:25, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

@Drunken_Sailor: Since I'm assuming that was a reply to Jvvg and not me, I've reduced the indent by 1. I thought (originally) that you were saying "Got it, we'll start AF preparations now."
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  09:18, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Why is everyone so worried about the April Fool Pages xD
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 01:37, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Well, the reason I'm worried about them is because the change was my idea...
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:51, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm back!
jvvg (talk | contribs) 14:02, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Welcome back!
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 16:51, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Yay!
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 18:23, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

YaYA!!
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  04:35, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done lol
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  00:56, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

We just hit a record high for active users

According to Interwikibot's stats page, the English wiki had 92 active users last week.

I know that there may have been more active users before Interwikibot started recording stats, but this is the highest count recorded, so it's a record high.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  09:16, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Nice! I'm pretty sure it was 81 when I joined.
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 09:19, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Sweet! Which reminds me- I need to take statistics for the forums before it starts blowing up again.
DownsGameClub (talk | contribs) 09:20, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Lol.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  09:32, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Yeah I think we've pretty much given up on patrolling every edit by now :P
19:41, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

(well if I had won I'd be all over the place patrolling edits :P)
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  05:19, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Well really just mainspace edits by newer users are the most important things to patrol. I really have no desire to click through every talk page post such as the policeman one "stop right there!" - you know exactly what I'm talking about. :P
05:37, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

LOL yeah. That was fun . Thing is, I did have to do something to get that user's attention or they would have continued their RC clogging.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  05:53, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Hey, it's now 100!
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 22:10, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

@Drunken_Sailor It is! Woohoo! And I'll bet that number will only rise, as a lot of users seem to be requesting to join the wiki, and it seems there have been more good requests in the past week than there have been before based on how long I've been on the wiki (not long).
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 22:13, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Really? If we are bringing that back up again, I better go find a cop meme. So I am actually being constructive, that is a lot of active users!
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 23:55, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Quite Impressive. The Applications have been pretty good overall, but their are definitely a good # of requests per day.
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 02:06, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

The guidelines also had simplifications done like in April sometime. We quite significantly reduced the size of them. That may have something to do with it. Or it's Ken. Ken's activity just makes everyone else active. I think there's some science term for that effect I just can't think of.
02:11, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

That reminds me of the effect of someone smiling which spreads the smile to someone else and soforth.
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 02:15, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

August is going to be a bad month then xD
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 02:16, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm going to be away during August so if you guys depend on me for your activity August is going to be slow.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  05:42, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

@OP - Ooh, nice!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 14:04, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  00:57, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

I think templates should show when they were placed

This is a convention from Wikipedia: Templates show the time they were added to the page. I think this is a great convention and should be included in this wiki too.

The main advantages:

• It shows how long, say, an article has needed to be expanded.
• All we have to do is to do {{stub}} - Deathly_Hallows will add the dates.

The main problem:

• All pages that already have templates on them will show the time the template was changed, not the time they were added. It's unfortunate, but there's no fix for it.

If we're okay with doing this, I'll start adding that snippet of code to all the templates. Thoughts?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  10:37, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I think that's a great idea! I've actually removed some templates from articles when I realized they weren't needed anymore, but I'd like to know how recently those were put up, or how long ago.
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 16:29, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Any others want to contribute their opinion? I'd like to have more than one person's support before proceeding, as this is slightly more large-scale than normal. Also, does anyone else have a solution for the problem, or are we just going to leave it at that?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  02:50, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Okay, I have a problem: It seems that the snippet of code above does not evaluate the subst:. The only way to do that is with the {{#invoke:}} function, but we don't have that because we don't have the Scribunto extension installed. Does anyone have a way to get around this?

Wait, hold on a second, I might have a way but I need to do some testing.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:57, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Nope, that didn't work.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  05:18, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree. I would like to know how long an article has been a stub for.
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 08:20, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I've now asked StackOverflow for help, hope results come in!
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  13:31, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Alright, bad news: it's apparently not possible to substitute inside a template. We're just going to have to add a guideline somewhere that says "Please add the date to the template by adding |date=Month YYYY before the }}". Meanwhile, I'll add the parameter handling and start going around adding the date.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  06:56, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Alternatively, we could use ~~~~~ to do it as that's much easier to remember, but isn't quite as good for the situation. I think we should wait for some people's opinions on this before we do too much.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 23:05, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

I'm pretty sure that ~~~~~ wouldn't be a good idea - we only want the month and year. But just remember - let's say you're adding a {{stub}} template - use

{{stub|date={{subst:CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}}}

when placing the template.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  04:13, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Wait, an answer came in! It's a good one too! You guys may want to read the answer and its comment, to find out what I'm doing, but here goes some template changing! (that means another pass through Category:Article Stubs... ugh)
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  06:17, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Since you've fixed this, we have to change the descriptions on the category pages themselves. I've done this to Stubs, so you can look there, and tell me what needs to be different. Once I have an idea for what to do, I'll go and edit the category pages. Sound good?
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 12:57, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't see this - sure! All you have to do is change the descriptions to say {{subst:<template>}} instead of what they previously said. Thanks for helping out!

I'm also planning to add a feature in Deathly_Hallows that adds the date if the template was transcluded instead of substituted - stay tuned!
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  04:57, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘  Done - dates are now automatically added with a bot.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:00, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

This is cool

Though sometimes the Wiki uses Github issues as references, this time a Github issue referred to a Wiki article! https://github.com/LLK/scratch-gui/issues/540
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  14:11, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Cool!
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 17:44, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm sure it's happened before. Also, template cool should be a thing.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 20:36, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

So true xD
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 23:30, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

It is now! Cool!
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  02:41, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

I must wonder how often it will be used out of the CP, but I suppose the same could be said for {{done}} and {{not done}}. Cool!
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 13:06, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Cool! That's awesome, nice new template. Should it be possible to change what it says, though?
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 22:04, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ YES!  Doing... that now.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  05:00, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done! Awesome!
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  05:24, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

That's great!
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 18:23, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

How to make a new article?

How to you make a Aritcle ( A new one)--
Torotv (talk | contribs) 23:29, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Just go to a page that doesn't exist yet that you want to create, click the pencil, and click create. When you save the page, it will be created. Just make sure that the page you make fits the criteria here when making a page.

Also make sure to put a new section in.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 02:09, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:02, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

New Articles

I have noticed that many articles have been created that do not meet the wiki guidelines. I would ask that all newer users review the Editing Conventions and the new page policies New Page Policies. If you are not 100% sure, put the articles in your userspace and ask others to review them before publishing. The wiki takes pride in it's collaborative efforts, and I have learned that the product of the group is always better than the product of the individual members.

Onto a lighter subject, I would like the bring up the subject of creating an article for isOnline. We did not reach a community consensus the last time, but agreed that once is reached over 1,000 users it would probably be notable enough. World_Languages has informed me that "it's the most installed Chrome extension that modifies the Scratch community website (excluding editor extensions)" and that it now has over 1500 users. Here is a link to the extension: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/isonline/pabjccjpgemijhffgnaamebfbcnalghj . Torotv created an article for it today, but I felt that a little more discussion was necessary beforehand. With that said, discuss. :D
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 01:56, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

1. I somehow doubt that new users look at the community portal all that often - they'll probably only take note if you tell them directly on their talk pages.
2. I think that isOnline has done fine - it now has >1300 users, according to the extension page. I'm fine with it having the page it deserves - but I'm probably not going to add anything to the page, since I don't use it anymore (the annoying prompt when I changed devices or accounts to reconfirm got too annoying).

FYI, by the way, I edited the OP because external links to internal pages are unholy.

My thoughts on the matter :D
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  04:28, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

I've never used isOnline, but since so many people use it and it's so popular on Scratch, I think it deserves an article.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 16:16, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree.
18:36, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

I think isOnline is popular enough to merit an article of its own.
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 16:19, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Please do create it! Maybe then if I know more about it I could get it myself!
Forested (talk | contribs) 18:47, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes, it also may help people decide whether it was safe or not by give ST member quotes. I feel that it would be very helpful and someone should definitely make it!
Pylar (talk | contribs) 15:48, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘  isOnline is now its own article
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:03, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Vandalism

Hello everyone- we just had a rare case of vandalism. If anyone see's this message "hacked :) this is what you get for banning me for no reason on my other account <3 ily all 💛 besides scratch staff" on any page instead of actual content, please inform an EW or administrator immediately so that we can undo the edits. I would take this as an opportunity to tell everyone that we should not vandalize, but I do not believe that is necessary. Everyone in our tight-knit community here has the wikis best interests in mind. Even though you may see your hard work gone, removed, or otherwise disturbed, do not fear because we can easily rollback the edits and restore it in perfect condition. Thanks everyone!
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 01:38, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

I have had the rare unfortunateness to have seen two cases of vandalism on the wiki - but there's something you need to know:

Reverting the edits DOES NOT HIDE THEM - the revisions are STILL THERE. We need an admin to actually delete the revisions themselves for this to be fully cleaned up - and judging by the amount of edits that's going to take a bit.

Besides that, once it's cleaned up this topic will need to be removed and its revisions hidden too.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:08, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Well, it should be fine as long as it isn't the current state of the articles, but I'm sure an admin will get to it soon. It is a lot of edits to delete though.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 03:24, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

@Duckboycool Yeah, it sure is a lot of edits. We were working hard on removing everything... Looks like "undo" doesn't remove the edits either. Well, the admins are going to certainly have a hard time, but looking at that users' contributions, none of the contributions they made were in their current state after their activity stopped, so it isn't the current state of anymore.
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 15:46, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. I saw you two talking about it.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 16:35, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Yup. I feel sorry for the unfortunate Admin that has to hide everything.
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 21:48, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

why do we need to hide all revisions?

KrIsMa user | talk | contribs | edits 01:49, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Because otherwise some random user could see the page history, look at a vandalized revision and think "What the heck? This place is weird - I'm staying away"
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  02:25, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

@Ken Or redo the vandalism.

banana439monkey (Talk | Contribs | Scratch | Edits (3,483))

10:28, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

We do have an application process. Two points on that, most applicants don't look at the RC. It is quite difficult to find if you are not logged in. The stuff will be buried pretty quickly. If they have any common sense then it will tell them not to do that.
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 12:08, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Also, not deleting the edits could upset the owner of the page.
Forested (talk | contribs) 18:45, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Articles don't actually have owners, and are just maintained by the community. It should be fine not to hide them, since they aren't the current state of the articles, and should disappear quickly.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 13:36, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

We don't want vandalism to be visible on the Wiki anywhere, current revision or not. We want the Wiki to be as clean as possible, and the best way to do that in the case of vandalism is to remove all traces.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 14:47, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

That's the spirit! Since I can't do anything about it though I can't really help - I would if I could.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  02:03, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘  Everything is cleaned up
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:04, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Change the name of the new April Fools page.

I suggest a change to the title of Scratch Wiki:April Fools. This change will append "Pages" at the end of the title. The new title will be "Scratch Wiki: April Fools Pages." I thought this would be natural because it's a collection of subpages, right? What do you think?
1a3c5e7g9i^{(Talk|Contributions)} 02:01, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

First off, WHOA.

Next, I think that Scratch Wiki:April Fools is a fine title - that page is supposed to also document the April Fools phenomenon on the Wiki, and not just act as a container page - i.e., the page should talk about what happens on April Fools day and not just act as a wrapper.

Third, give us some warning! When I moved the AF pages from Jvvg's namespace to that page, there was plenty of warning - there had been a CP discussion up there already.

So, no, I think the title should not be changed - Scratch Wiki:April Fools should be more than just a container.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:20, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

No, Scratch Wiki:April Fools is fine. Anyway, please do this BEFORE moving everything:

"If in doubt, please ask on the Community Portal first."
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 08:43, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘This would be a bad idea. Discussion over.
1a3c5e7g9i^{(Talk|Contributions)} 00:16, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  05:20, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

References

What happens if I have a reference, but I don't have the link to that specific comment?
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 22:52, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

Don't add the reference until you have the link - unsourced references are worse than no references.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  05:11, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

How would I get a link to it though?
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 07:53, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

If you select the comment, then right click, then press inspect, then look up until you see something that says "comments-12345678" (obviously would be different numbers then your link is "(current link in your address bar)#comments-12345678". There's a project tutorial here. Just make sure you use the new comment reference system.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 13:16, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Ah, thank you!  Done
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 13:26, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

Hey

Hey guys get Grammarly [[2]] to help with your grammar. --
Sparf (talk | contribs) 19:23, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

If you notice any grammar mistakes, please fix them (unless it's in userspace). But I think we should leave others to decide if they want software to help them.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 19:50, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

I think we should leave it up to the users themselves to choose whether or not to get something to help with their grammar. Really, though, if you're that worried about it, just do what I do and stalk Recent Changes. See a grammar mistake? Fix it up. It's as simple as that; but make sure you only really do it in anything that's informational, for categories, or anything people will generally be able to find with ease on the wiki (unless it's in the userspace).
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 05:46, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:05, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

My thoughts on the wiki

Most of the edits these days are on talk pages and on April Fools' pages, which are unfunny and an annoyance to anyone who wants actual information on April 1st. There's really nothing Scratch-related to write about anymore, and there isn't much that actually needs to be done here except article cleanup. It will be that way until 3.0 is released. It's time to stop. Thanks!
Djdolphin (talk | contribs) 04:06, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

My goodness!

You are never going to make me stop editing the wiki - even grammar edits are good edits, and there's always more to write about. If you want to add fresh new content to the Wiki, you might want to watch the GitHub repos - scratch-gui, scratch-blocks, scratch-vm, scratch-audio, and if you have access, scratchr2. Watching them will give you the latest news on what's coming - so if you're focused on adding new stuff, take a look at them.

Also, on April 1st anyone can still see the original content of a page - just scroll to the bottom and open up "Extended content".

Please don't tell people to stop editing - we only recently hit a record high for active users, and I don't want that to go away.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  04:46, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

How very dare you?

You're always able to edit the wiki, and there's always something to improve. Minor edits are always acceptable, such as grammar fixes, consistency fixes, and the like. There's also always room to add more information to articles as more and more updates are made to the website, and those can be found by talking to Scratch Team members and by looking at GitHub.

There's even room to create new articles whenever you like; since joining the wiki, I've made four new pages, one of them just because I felt like it (and it was actually alright)! A lot of them are made after new updates to the website (such as the recent Tips Page article). You can also create a tutorial whenever you like.

Also, about the April Fools' articles... They are kind of pointless, but hey, they can make people laugh on that day so it's still an edit nonetheless (though they should only be editing those a lot near April Fools' Day...).

So yeah, don't tell people to stop editing the wiki like that. There's always room for articles to improve, even if the changes are minor. What's wrong with cleanup? We're just taking something and fixing it up a little bit, so that there's nothing wrong with the articles anymore. If there's nothing to clean up... We add more information! As far as I can tell, we're at a new record for active users at the moment and we shouldn't be discouraging people from being active at this point.
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 05:42, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Hey djdolphin,

First of all, I'd like to thank you for bringing up these concerns about the Wiki. Others have already touched on most of what I wanted to say, so I'll try not to repeat things too much. I agree with you that the April Fools articles don't help the Wiki in any way, and I don't find them particularly funny either. However, they aren't actively harming the Wiki, so if people want to edit those articles and make jokes on them then I have no problem with that. They have no effect on the actual mainspace articles, and I'm not sure what you mean when you say that they're "an annoyance to anyone who wants actual information on April 1st". Anyone who wants to read about April Fools is free to do so at April Fools. There is certainly not barely any work left to be done before Scratch 3.0. In fact, it's important that we clean up all the articles now in preparation for Scratch 3.0, because when it comes out we probably won't have time to work on old articles. There are still plenty more article ideas that I can think of and if you need any pointers I'd be happy to give you some suggestions.
Hamish752 (talk | contribs) 10:14, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Hello djdolphin,
I am not going to make another large wall of text for you to read, as most of my thoughts have already been said, but I just wanted to mention that there is always room for helping people. I spend a lot of time on the community portal, where about every day there is some new section here to help people with. These discussions do usually go on for a long time, so there is almost always something to say here. Also with many new people trying to join the wiki recently, it is a great time to go onto new editor's talk pages, and give them advice, or help with questions they have. It is surprising how far the advice goes in terms of editing, along with helpful guides such as the cheatsheet, or welcome pages. And of coarse, there are also always articles to improve. With new articles being created recently, there are a lot of Stubs, Articles to Expand, and Inaccurate Articles. Likely by the time that all of these articles are completed up to wiki standards, there will be much more to do with the release of 3.0, plus, as others have said, there will always be more to do on current articles. An article is never finished.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 13:30, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

My goodness, it's been such a long time! It has been ages since I've seen you. Anyway, if what you say is true then we should be the proudest Wiki ever. Really, when we get to the point where there's not much to write about then we have documented Scratch very well. But surely, article cleanup does need done. Grammar issues and usage of second person are everywhere. But April Fools isn't really harming anything.
17:48, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Wow, that's a lot of replies. Of course I don't think the actual improvements to the wiki should stop. It's just disappointing to see so much activity here but so little of substance, and that's what I think needs to stop.
Djdolphin (talk | contribs) 19:02, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

There may be more active users than ever, but few of them are actually improving the wiki. It seems that since all the easy, important articles are already written, and almost nobody wants to clean them up, most users just use the wiki as an exclusive place to chat and work year-round on its April Fools' desecration.
Djdolphin (talk | contribs) 21:04, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

As long as stuff isn't being worsened why does it matter?
21:19, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Most of the new Wikians I see haven't made a single change to the AF pages, forget it being the main thing that they are doing. I just don't think that what you are saying is really the case. Just look at the Contribs from new contributors, and you'll see that they aren't. Most of it is about talk pages and their user page, but they are just getting settled in, and will start making edits to mainspace. Plus, with more about 3.0 coming, there is sure to be new articles to make soon. I am glad that you want the wiki to be constructive, but I just don't believe that it is as bad as you are saying. If there is a specific person you see that you think should be starting to work on mainspace, just give them a nice message of their talk page. I hope that you can see our thoughts here, and that this doesn't bother you too much.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 21:47, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘So maybe this is less of a problem than I make it out to be, but look at it from my perspective, as someone who doesn't contribute anymore but occasionally uses the wiki to look up information. When I came here to look something up on April 1st, I had to try to sort through the April Fools' mess and couldn't find the actual content due to a broken template. Once I finally find the old article in the history, the content is full of mistakes and grammar issues. Yesterday, when I came to look something up again, the articles were still littered with mistakes and grammar issues, and when I looked at the recent changes there were tons of edits to talk pages and the April Fools' pages (most of which I now realize were just adding a categories, but there were still actual edits adding AF content!), and I had trouble finding any edits to actual wiki content. This made it look like more effort is put into April Fools' than anything constructive, and even if that isn't true, my last few experiences with using the wiki have not been good.
Djdolphin (talk | contribs) 03:14, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Just so you know:

• All of my AF edits recently were temporarily automated
• There's actually just one user that always edits AF pages instead of mainspace pages
• If there's a broken article, clean it up!
• Mass edits happen - if you want to see mainspace edits in the RC when they happen just increase the limit
• It's not an exclusive place to chat - people can chat on each other's profiles just as easily as we can chat on talk pages
• Little-substance edits are still edits - and if enough of them happen, it builds up. 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 equals 10 just as much as 10 does
• Have you forgotten you need specific examples of pages you want to change when submitting an account request? New users will most likely edit those pages first.

As to why my edit summary said "how very dare you", it's because the Wiki is one of the few things I truly love doing - I would stay on here all the time if I didn't have to eat or sleep. And now djdolphin suggests that we (I) stop trying to edit. I feel really insulted, so that's why I said "how very dare you".

On a different note - each of our replies is adding about a kilobyte to the page - time to archive soon.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:52, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

• I realize that now, but that mass of edits looked pretty ridiculous when I first looked at it.
• Unfortunately the first edits I saw when I looked at the recent changes were from that person.
• I do make fixes sometimes, but I haven't had much time to get too involved with anything here.
• I did.
• I meant exclusive as in an exclusive club, but my original point about that is moot.
• True.
• No. Probably.

You have the right to feel insulted and are under no obligation to stop, but I maintain my opinion that most of what goes on here is pointless, even ignoring the April Fools' stuff.
Djdolphin (talk | contribs) 04:46, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

That doesn't really bother me though. It was the excessive April Fools' thing that put me over the edge. Keep on keeping on.
Djdolphin (talk | contribs) 05:03, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

 Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:06, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

I will be out for three to four weeks

I'll be on vacation in New Zealand starting from tomorrow. I'll try to keep up with what's going on - but I can't guarantee I'll be active anywhere.

In the meantime, if someone needs an active user to contact, I suggest going with Turkey3 for admin needs, or WolfCat67 for general help.

I would also appreciate it if you all could take a look at my bot request :)

That's all I think I need to take care of - Scratch on!
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  04:08, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Me? Help? What?
WolfCat67 (talk | contribs) 04:47, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Congrats @WolfCat67! You are now officially an assistant!
DownsGameClub (talk | contribs) 00:24, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Yes, direct all questions at WolfCat67, and not anyone else. :P
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 13:23, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

@Kenny2scratch - See you later then! Have fun!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 19:01, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Cloud Data

I've seen tons of information about this but I'm not very knowledgeable and the Wiki doesn't mention it. Based on what I can gather, flash updated, closing off the ports that scratch uses to communicate cloud data and forcing us to move to a 'fallback polling method'. This new method works, but it makes the cloud super slow (~1.5 seconds between data 'refreshes') and causes all sortsa' bugs (variables not deleting, data rubberbanding back to a previous value, edge/IE setting variables to 0 for no apparent reason, etc.)

ST is working on a fix but it wont be available until 3.0 and I think adding a section to the Cloud Data article about issues/the fallback polling protocol might be worth doing. I don't know enough about how that works to do it though.

I can look into it if no else wants to, but its an idea if you need something to do.
KingOfAwesome58219 (talk | contribs) 01:49, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

This happened a while ago, but the reason that it is currently in Fallback Polling is because people were spamming the fast port 531 connection 30 times a second with ineffective loops, and cloud just couldn't handle it. Cloud servers were almost always down, so they shut off the fast port connection. There's no certain time as to when it will be back, but some people think it will be back with 3.0 when it comes out. The articles doesn't mention this though, so feel free to update it.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 16:27, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

So I had the idea right but also wrong. I'll play around and see if I can write something that is informative. Any sources/references I can use?
KingOfAwesome58219 (talk | contribs) 00:41, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

You can always search for TheLogFather’s forum posts on the matter :)
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  04:53, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, he's what I've been looking through. Can I officially use him as a source though?
KingOfAwesome58219 (talk | contribs) 06:01, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Totally! He knows his stuff - just make sure to use the reference format right.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  06:05, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Anyone knowledgeable on the discussion is fair game. Stickied topics are also good to use.
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 19:05, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘  Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:08, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Template throwing Errors

Hello all, I have not played around with templates very much, so I cannot fix the error. The Inaccurate template on some pages such as Evil Kumquat and Scratch Emojis. I may assume that any page in the Category:Inaccurate Articles has this error, as on the template page, the error is shown. Whoever has the ability to fix this, please do!
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 14:19, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

This is still a problem.
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 13:53, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

I’m not sure what the problem here is - you’re saying that {{Inaccurate}} is no longer obeying cat=no? If that’s the case, I know (and can fix) the problem, but it will have to wait a while until after judgement on my bot request - whether it gets accepted controls what changes I make to templates. I’m currently adding a date parameter to Pages to Improve templates and requiring substitution - in the process I may have removed some functionality of several parameters. I intend to fix this, but for now I can’t help you out yet.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  14:19, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

"This template should have been substituted, not transcluded. Please search through the page history and add the date that it was added." Is under the template - is there a way to fix that error?
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 14:27, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Ohh - you can fix it by doing what it says: looking through the page history, finding the month and year the template was most recently placed, and adding that to the template ({{inaccurate|date=Month YYYY}}). Then the error will disappear.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  14:30, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘  Done - this has been resolved with a bot
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:10, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Dates

Which date format should references use? American, MM/DD/YYYY, or the other way, DD/MM/YYYY?
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 20:09, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

The wiki apparently lists it as the international format (DD [month] YYYY), so I would go with that. Either way, I would advise not using numerical values in place of words.
DownsGameClub (talk | contribs) 20:17, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Ok, thanks!  Done and dusted
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 20:32, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

WAIT NO! The date format for references is DD/MM/YYYY - that was what was specified.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  10:58, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Ok, thanks!

'DRUNKEY MO'? XD
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 12:48, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Tryna type “NO” 😒
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  13:33, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Would Exetentions Warrant a Wiki Page?

So, I have noticed that extensions (like isOnline) do not have a wiki page. Would they get one? I know that we don't like to advertise (to quote the FAQ: "Articles about scratchers and projects are not allowed.") but people may want to know more about the extension, whether it is safe, whether or not the ST approves, that kind of stuff. So would I be allowed to make a page on browser extensions?
Pylar (talk | contribs) 14:43, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

May I refer you to #New Articles :).
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  15:00, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

There is also a discussion in not done.
  Duckboycool  (Talk | Contribs | Edits) 20:54, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

*when you realize you weren't as thorough as you thought* Oh, right! Curse me for not paying attention!
Pylar (talk | contribs) 00:52, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

 Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:12, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

My time has come (for real this time)

I haven't really been checking RC lately like I used to and haven't even been following the CP discussions lately. I'm going to be returning to college soon and will also be busy in that stuff. I think this marks a good time for me to announce that I'm going to become mostly inactive. What this means:

• April Fools' pages: we've already taken care of that
• WikiMonitor: I will keep operating it for now
• Admin stuff: from here forward, if you need an admin or EW, please contact another one
• Account requests: I'm probably going to stop with that too. I will continue to provide any necessary maintenance to the system (let me know on my talk page if there are any issues).
• User talk stuff: I will still check my user talk page if you have anything that needs to be done specifically by me.

I will probably still check in from time to time, but I am going to be mostly inactive from here forward. It has been great helping lead this community, and I hope to see this continue into the future.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 18:14, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

We will miss you.
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 18:26, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, you will be missed. Good luck with college.
-Vuton- (Talk 💬 | Contribs 💾 | Pages 📚) 19:50, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

You will be greatly missed. Good luck.
TheUltimatum (talk | contribs) 20:55, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

You'll be missed. Good luck with your college work.
ᙡᗝᒪFᙅᗩT67 ( Talk | Contributions | Subpages ) 21:16, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh no! Goodbye, then :(. So I guess the only real problem now is who will operate WM when you stop? I’m glad we took care of the AF pages though.

But anyway, goodbye! I had fun on that “your status on the wiki” topic on your talk. I will probably miss you most of all.

Will you continue to stay on discord? (At least in #offtopic?)
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  23:07, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

@Ken Hopefully. Goodbye. Your contributions to this wiki can never be overstated. I truly wish you the best of luck at college :)
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 01:03, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for all you have contributed to the wiki (and that's a lot). Have fun in your next adventures! I'm sad to see you go.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 01:08, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Done...
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:15, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

WikiMonitor will be down tomorrow

It should be back up the next day.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 21:16, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Ok. Have we fugured out who is taking over it, or will it stay with you?
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 21:27, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

It will stay with me for now. In the future I may hand it to someone else, but that would be a ways off probably if it does happen.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 21:34, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

”if it doe shappen” :p. Anyone in particular you’re thinking of yet?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  21:38, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

I am not thinking of anyone in particular right now.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 22:01, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

 Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:15, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

A proposal for a template.

 Done

Why don't we add the person's username to the template, Template:Welcome - just for that touch of the warm welcome instead of just a welcome.

banana439monkey (Talk | Contribs | Scratch | Edits (3,483))

09:58, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

I feel like having a name is something that should be reserved for user welcome templates - users give a more warm welcome anyway than an auto-generated message.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  10:07, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Its a bit more personal, and I like the idea.
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 15:46, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

I think it would be quite a nice touch.
-Vuton- (Talk 💬 | Contribs 💾 | Pages 📚) 16:02, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

A new template.

 Done A template - Protected. This template is placed on protected pages. Its text would say: This page has been protected by {{{user}}} - This means you can't edit it. If you want to edit this page, please discuss changes on its talk page.

Reason: {{{reason}}}

Also... Another template, like {{Not done}}, but instead it says 'Working on'.

banana439monkey (Talk | Contribs | Scratch | Edits (3,483))

17:50, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

1. Meh, it’s good. Though {{archive header}} does that to a certain extend...
2. We have {{doing}}:  Doing...

kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  20:32, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

There is no need. When editors try to edit the page they are given a reason why the page was protected anyways.

KrIsMa user | talk | contribs | edits 23:10, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

True...

banana439monkey (Talk | Contribs | Scratch | Edits (3,483))

06:20, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

To all EWs, admins, and other users with the rollback permission

First, let me quickly disclaim that I am not asking you to stop accidentally rolling back edits - I know that can’t really be prevented.

I would like to ask all users with the rollback permission to still use “undo” instead of rollback when reverting edits for a particular purpose.
rollback is meant as an anti-vandlalism tool - not a quicker way to undo edits.
First off, when you undo an edit, you’re allowed to add an edit summary - so you can explain why you undid the edit in the edit summary for RC patrollers to see.
Second off, when you revert an edit, (besides when it’s accidental) you’re basically treating the edit as vandalism - rollback is meant for vandalism while undo is meant for an easier way to reverse edits, so why not use undo?

So to conclude, I would like to say to all users with the rollback permission: even though you can doesn’t mean you should - undo if it’s not vandalism, but rollback if it is.

Thanks.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  21:59, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

I apologize. I did not realize that. Undo will be used by me from now on. Apologies.
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 22:09, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

It’s okay! I know most new EWs (or even old ones) don’t know about this - I was letting y’all know.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  22:14, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Sorry Again.
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 22:17, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

Good point! Also people with the rollback permission: when accidentally using rollback do not use rollback again to undo the edit. Use the undo function

KrIsMa user | talk | contribs | edits 22:39, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

If you do need to revert several revisions, you can also just edit the source of the revision you want to restore and save that. That's an option available to everyone (not just EWs/admins) and allows you to enter a summary.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 02:27, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

 Done
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:17, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Time to archive!

According to my sandbox, the CP is over 128 thousand bytes - and the archive minimum is 125 thousand. It’s time to archive!
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  21:36, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

+1
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 21:52, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. It takes a while to load (on my computer)
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 00:27, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Fun fact: Chrome crashed on my iPad trying to load this page. I seriously think we need to archive now.

I’ve just spent some time marking every topic except a few as done or not done, to help with this. So, it’s time to archive!
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:23, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh wow.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 01:48, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, It also takes me nearly a minute to load the page! :P
-Vuton- (Talk 💬 | Contribs 💾 | Pages 📚) 08:51, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Wow. Yeah, an EW needs to see this soon xD
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 19:32, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Lol
-Vuton- (Talk 💬 | Contribs 💾 | Pages 📚) 10:34, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

We now have a new bot

For those who aren’t on discord, and don’t patrol the Recent Changes enough to see Scratch Wiki:Bot Requests, we now have a new bot!

Its name is Deathly_Hallows, and what it does is pretty simple: it adds dates to templates for you.

I (kenny2scratch) have also edited all the templates with dates so that if their date is not specified, they get added to Category:Pages with Dateless Templates. This simplifies finding pages without dates tremendously.

Besides that, it also looks through all mainspace pages for too many {{citation needed}} templates, and adds {{inaccurate}} if there are too many.

Its task has already been added to Scratch Wiki:Bots/Areas, and the only thing preventing its first run is the fact that it isn’t in the bot usergroup yet.

So there you have it! We have a new bot, and if you show bot edits in the recent changes you might see it around.

note: I decided to post this with the bot account because I thought it would be fun - this was definitely not an automated edit.
 TemplatesFTW  Talk  Contribs  Config  09:42, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Hi Kenny2Scratch!

Cool, a new bot! I'm excited for it to start working!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 00:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Yep, it just needs to become a bot to be a bot :). FYI, the S in my name is never capitalized.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  00:40, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Ugh, I forgot again! xD Sorry
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 00:45, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Idea for a new article: a list of all forum stickies.

I want to make an article which is a list of all forum stickies, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea. What is your opinion about that?
Yzyzyz (talk | contribs) 17:14, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

I don't know...people can already just look at the forums and see the stickies there.

There's already an article about stickies, too... Sticky

So, I personally think no, but that's just my opinion.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 19:25, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Personally, no. There is already a description of which stickies are in which forum in Sticky, so I feel that it's unnecessary.
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 22:43, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

We don’t need a list of stickies - there’s a list in each forum, near the top of the first page. I say nay.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  06:30, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

so we don't need it.
Yzyzyz (talk | contribs) 07:30, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

 Correct
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  07:47, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Could an admin or EW run through Category:Pages in Need of Deletion?

^^ there are a lot of pages in there that need it.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  06:49, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

+1
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs) 09:14, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Yes please There are tons of pages in that category
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 13:46, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Um half the April Fools pages in there that say they are in place of a redirect really aren't.
15:38, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh no... I deleted like 3. Whoops. Is there anyway to retrieve the content?
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 02:04, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

In any case, AF pages that are redirects are useless...
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  02:12, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Yes, it is possible to retrieve the content. I did for one page, but I wasn't sure which other ones were subject to the template issue.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 02:14, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

@Turkey3: mmh I knew there would be trouble not putting noinclude around those deletes, but I didn’t know what and yet I didn’t do it :/
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  02:18, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Ok. Which ones are the redirects?
Cυƨтσмнαcκεя ( тαʟκ | cσптяıв ) 12:52, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘  There are still more pages - another run is required.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  01:09, 19 August 2017 (UTC)