Scratch Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive 110

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Community Portal Archives

Change external Scratch links to interwiki links automatically

 Done
It could be helpful. So, I suggest it.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  15:23, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

TemplatesFTW already does that; or do you mean a different way of automating it?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 16:02, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Do you mean that you don't have to use the external link markup when linking a scratch profile, ect...? That could be helpful...
ContourLines [ Talk ~ Contributions ~ Directory ] 06:57, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

@ContourLines — you already don't have to use the external markup. In fact, S:STYLE says not to use the external link markup (see #internal-scratch-links). You can use [[users:USERNAME]] for users, [[studios:ID]] for studios, and [[projects:ID]] for projects. Ahmetlii suggested to change external links to these interwiki links automatically, then I said that TemplatesFTW already does it.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 16:50, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

I actually proposed the Scratch Links and added it to S:STYLE (: Anyway, I didn't see that TemplatesFTW does that, yea, I think it was good to add it to the bot.
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  03:19, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Ahmetlii, I think this is  Done; is that correct?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 19:21, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

How do I make a fill width CSS for SWS2

As per title.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 21:11, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Thankful Thursday! September 24^th, 2020

Welcome to the 32^nd Thankful Thursday! September 24^th, 2020.

What is Thankful Thursday?

Thankful Thursday is a way of showing appreciation to other Wikians. Feel free to congratulate someone for finishing a large page, or even just give minor thanks for a minor edit. Just remember to keep everything positive!

How to Thank

We have a whole wiki page on it! You can find it here: Thankful Thursday

Thanks

The Thanks are *drum roll please*

User	Thanks
Bigpuppy (talk | contribs)	Thanks for everything you've done to help the Wiki ;-; garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 16:24, 17 September 2020 (UTC) Without a doubt, you've been an amazing administrator around the wiki. Especially with patrolling these days with a lot of edits in Recent Changes, it takes a lot of work and effort. I don't know what I'd do without your help. Thank you! TenType (talk | contribs) 03:41, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Thank you for literally spamming activity on the Wiki and also for thanking millions of people, that's some gratitude and effort. Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 14:15, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs)	Thank you for being so active! We appreciate editors like you! bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC) A big thanks to you for your activity, keep going! I also really like the blur effect you incorporated in your header. TenType (talk | contribs) 03:41, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
ThatOneWeirdDude (talk | contribs)	Thanks for your edits recently! I'm glad you decided to join the wiki! I hope you decide to continue! bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
VFDan (talk | contribs)	Thanks for your recent contributions, such as those to discussions! bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Naleksuh (talk | contribs)	Thank you for making so many constructive edits to the wiki! It is clear that you have a talent for editing, so thank you for using that talent to help the Scratch Wiki. (Thanks also for your help in upgrading MediaWiki!) bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Thank you for your massive amounts of bold contributions, we really appreciate what you are doing here. You've been a great editor! TenType (talk | contribs) 03:41, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
12944qwerty (talk | contribs)	Thank you for your constructive contributions to discussions! bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs)	Thanks for your work with Wiki Wednesday and other initiatives such as the New User Recommendations program! bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Thank you for being such an intuitive SW member - always finding new ideas to improve it, introducing new tactics, and being an awesome helper in general! -unsigned comment by Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs)
4096bits (talk | contribs)	Thanks for all your edits! Even though you just started this month, you are already proving yourself as a helpful member of our community. bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Thank you for your many contributions lately! Keep it up! TenType (talk | contribs) 03:41, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Ahmetlii (talk | contribs)	Thank you so much for being consistently active and helpful. You're a wonderful editor and community member! bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC) All throughout the year, you have been active and cooperative. Thank you for your dedication to the wiki! TenType (talk | contribs) 03:41, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
TenType (talk | contribs)	I can't thank you enough for your work patrolling and reviewing account requests. You bring a friendly and upbeat attitude to the wiki, and it's been great working with you. bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Petition to add an auto-thank feature for absolutely amazing people Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 14:56, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Am395397 (talk | contribs)	Thank you for the interesting food for thought you posted on my talk page (for those who haven't seen it, it is here and here). bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
banana439monkey (talk | contribs)	Thanks for your work as an Experienced Wikian; I and others appreciate you! bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs)	Welcome back, and thanks for your edits recently! You are greatly appreciated as a Scratch and Scratch Wiki community member. bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Ayyy, you're back and already contributing a lot! Thank you for your edits! TenType (talk | contribs) 03:41, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Leahcimto (talk | contribs)	Thanks for your edits and activity recently! I hope you are having fun editing the wiki, since your edits are greatly appreciated. bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Apple502j (talk | contribs)	Thank you for being such a large help in finding and fixing vulnerabilities, and for being a great Experienced Wikian! bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Thank you for helping with those Recent Changes issues people were having, and generally thank you for all of the technical help apart from mere edits too! -unsigned comment by Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs)
jakel181 (talk | contribs)	As always, thanks for running Thankful Thursday and helping the wiki in other ways, such as by reviewing account requests. Everyone here appreciates you! bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Thank you for being my humorous friend who trolled me using German and English! I'll never forgot that! -unsigned comment by Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs)
ArtsyStrawberry (talk | contribs)	Thanks for your work at Curator (front page)/Future Curators! It hasn't gone unnoticed. bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Kenny2scratch (talk | contribs)	Thank you for everything you've done for the wiki, from the day you joined to today. I'm glad that you decided to join the wiki, since you're an integral part of our community. It's great that you've found time to help us out even during your studies, though I know you are aware that at this point in time your studies are much more important than editing the wiki. bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC) You spend so much effort on taking care of the Wiki, it's honestly mesmerizing. It's hard to keep your focus on thing like that, and you take care of it so much and help sooo many people. You're amazing! -unsigned comment by Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs)
Dominic305 (talk | contribs)	Thanks for being so active recently! You are greatly appreciated as an editor and person. bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Thanks for helping me with that Recent Changes bug! Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 14:52, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Illusion705 (talk | contribs)	Thanks for your work on Scratch Camp: Scratch the Musical and elsewhere on the wiki! bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
jvvg (talk | contribs)	I'm not sure what the wiki would do without you. And I'm not just saying that to be nice; I'm really not sure what the wiki would do without you. The fact that you've been contributing impeccable edits, code, and admin work to the wiki since 2012—with little to nothing except the joy of contributing in return—is admirable. This is made even more impressive by the fact that you now have a job and are still active. I think I can speak for all editors when I say thank you. bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Whenever I need help or I need some bureaucrat action, you're pretty much always available to respond. You've dedicated so much time to the wiki, I can't thank you enough for it! TenType (talk | contribs) 03:41, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
MartinWollenweber (talk | contribs)	Thank you for making sure the wikis have a home. Wonderful things happen here, and you make them possible. bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:59, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
NYCDOT (talk | contribs)	Thank you for helping out in the Community Portal forum topic! bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 04:02, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Jammum (talk | contribs)	Thanks for being so active, suggesting so many things on the Community Portal, editing many pages, and participating in so many discussions! bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 04:02, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Drunken_Sailor (talk | contribs)	Thank you for writing this comment. I feel it is very well-written, and has a calm and respectful demeanor. bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 04:09, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

“

There are many more people on this wiki who deserve these comments just as much as those who received them. :) Everyone is special and brings their own ideas. The more of us there are, the better the community spirit. Sadly, I must sign off now- Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 01:06, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

”

The next TT is, October 29^th, see you then!

 Done
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  12:28, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

wow big thanks

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 12:43, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Whoa! Thanks!
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 13:06, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Merge Check users and Supressors user groups with bureaucrats or administrators

Except for the Interface Admin user group, two other user groups were added in the new MediaWiki upgrade. They are mentioned in the title of this topic. I think those groups are unnecessary and could be merged and have their rights moved to other usergroups.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 05:24, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

These were actually removed already removed in 28, but were inadvertently restored by the upgrade. However, I personally feel like they should not be removed for a number of reasons:

1) CheckUser and Suppressor inherently mean access to confidential information, which is usually specifically mentioned in the privacy policy. Voting in users for bureaucrat should not typically result in access to private information.

2) Users who have access to such information generally are scrutinized much more than users who do not. Suppressors need to deal with PII like real names, home addresses, and anything else like that. It is not the role of a bureaucrat to handle stuff like that.

3) Scratch Wiki has a tendency to treat user groups like a hierarchy (i.e. Bureaucrat is better than sysop, which is better than Experienced Wikian). I think that these three new user groups help remove this bad aura.

4) Bureaucrat does not have an age requirement, but I do not want minors to have access to the information that CheckUsers and Suppressors do.

There are a number of other reasons as well that they should not be merged, but this is just off the top of my head. Comments about Interface admin can be directed to a couple threads above this, which I assume Jammum has seen.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 05:37, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

For your last statement, literally 99% of users are under the age of 18. I'm a minor, and I feel extremely offended by this comment. It just enforces a stereotype that everyone under the age of 13 is dumb. Also, it wouldn't be a fair opportunity for everyone. I know that admins are encouraged to have access to the discord server, but it is not mandatory.

For your 2nd statement, there isn't much personal info on my (and everyone else's) account. As long as you trust (or the majority trusts) the user, you'll be fine.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 12:38, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

I don't see anything about 'all people under 13 are dumb' in the post above yours. Also there is definently personal info in our accounts - I wouldn't really want people to be able to see my email address.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  15:56, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Support to @Dominic305. There's also a legal side; we must ensure that someone is not using emails for email hacking or phishing - that's why we must give these roles to people that older 13 (for juridical capacity) and trusted users by the community. This doesn't mean that people under 13 is dumb, but that's risky - give a user that does not have juridical capacity may make unwanted legal consequences.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  16:13, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

After reading these, I have a proposal. There should be 2 bureaucrat ranks. One for users under the age of 13, and one for users over the age of 13. If a user is elected or appointed bureaucrat, and they happen to be underage, they would get a similar rank to normal bureaucrat but the permissions regarding the viewing and changing of personal information would be removed. This wouldn't be publicised unless the user does it themselves.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 18:09, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Imho nobody needs to have those perms. And just because somebody is over 13, they're automatically not going to do anything malicious with the emails? I signed up with my personal email, and I don't want anybody to know my name (I prefer anonymity). Besides, how would you know they are 13? I can easily say I'm 22, although that's a blatant lie. How would allowing any user group to view emails benefit the wiki?
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  20:44, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

First of all, the age in question would be 18 and not 13 as 13-year-olds are still minors and are not legally able to sign non-disclosure agreements (although they are able to be bound by privacy policies). Also, I think that simply having two groups based on age only (halfway) solves one of the issues at hand and does not solve any of the others. For example, one could be granted CheckUser/Supressor and not bureaucrat; or bureaucrat and not CheckUser/Suppressor. The two groups should not be merged into bureaucrat, and I think that having seperate groups for users who are over or under 13 is simply problematic, discriminatory, and does not solve the issues at all.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 20:48, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

To VFDan, while asking for a users' birthday is sufficient for COPPA compliance, for access to confidential information, proof of legal identification is usually required, and lying about the age would immediately be found out.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 20:48, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

If the age would be 18, then let's just get rid of literally every single admin or EW! I have a hunch that almost every EW/Admin is under 18, leaving the very few 18+ admins to do all the work. Many adults have jobs to do, and that explains their activity.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 21:16, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree that no one should need to see user emails.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  14:42, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Support (for merging groups). We don't need more groups, and most of the bureaucrats can view any content stored in a database. Also we don't have a way to confirm their age.

It's also important to see what is "confidential" - I am not sure if we ever used "suppress". We always used normal revision delete, and I am not sure if there is any information that should be hidden from admins. (note: EWs can't view deleted revisions) There are variety of things removed from a page - mostly email and social media/chat website links, and "hiding vandalism". Email or chat website links, IMO, aren't confidential enough to require suppression. Only certain PIIs like home addresses, phone numbers or social security numbers would need suppression, and I personally have never seen someone putting their home address on this wiki. Hiding vandalism is just to prevent name-and-shame by the viewers of the Wiki. If you think they should be oversighted, then we should fire admins that do bad things instead.

There could be some legal reasons to use oversighting but I honestly don't think that'll happen. As far as I know, there is no law that enforces us to remove links to social media.

While IP address could be considered confidential, again, I don't think there is a reason to have separate group.

Naleksuh mentioned that current system is like a hierarchy - and that is true. However, this is supposed to happen. Bureaucrats have more privileges than admins because they are responsible for maintaing all Scratch Wikis. They are like stewards in Wikimedia wikis. Administrators have basic privileges for managing one wiki, and EWs help admins, easier to obtain (than admins) but with less privileges.

I probably should also mention one more thing - currently, there is only one active bureaucrat. If we have groups for CheckUser and suppression, it is kinda obvious that there will be less CheckUsers than bureaucrats, especially with an age requirement. However, both CUs and suppressors are essential (if we actually use them, which we never did for suppressors) when fighting vandalism.

I understand that we are not Wikipedia - but given that the whole idea of suppressor and checkuser groups came from Wikimedia wikis, I think we shouldn't forget this fact: Stewards can use both CheckUser and Oversight. Stewards are people who assign groups, and help people cross-wiki. There is one existing group that basically does the same job, on Scratch Wikis, which is bureaucrat. Bureaucrats (with some exceptions, if any) have access to all Scratch Wikis, as bureaucrats, and can modify the database and the files at will, and have full control over Scratch Wikis.

This discussion could be bumped when we introduce actual per-wiki bureaucrats. However, we don't have them yet, so for now there is no use for separate user groups.

Also one note: who is minor and who isn't, totally depends on the country.
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 08:28, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Apple, no one cares about age. Ken has been a bureaucrat since he was 14. Me, an EW since 14. All of us started being an EW as minors, and some bureaucrats and administrators. Suppression is hiding edit summaries. Email and chat are very confidential and should be removed. Not all bureaucrats are on all wikis.

banana439monkey (Talk | Contribs | Scratch | Edits (3,483))

11:08, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

No, giving minors access to legally confidential information contains legal problems to no end. The "we don't have a way to confirm their age" further confirms a lack of understanding. As Banana said, the information here is not simply hiding vandalism or certain edit summaries and may not under any circumstances be made available to non-functionaries. Merge  Not done
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 18:05, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

I'm not sure what you mean by "legally confidential information". There are some information that are definitely confidential - like social security number, but I've never seen them posted on the wiki. PIIs are probably included in that category, but I don't think it's a common problem. Emails and IP addresses may be considered as PII. Note that links to social media, common reason of per-revision deletion, are mostly banned for moderation reasons; There is little to no reason to use oversight for those.

Of those confidential information, which are legally confidential, and which cause legal problems when accessed by minors? I do not know details on German laws, but if I remember correctly, GDPR did not enforce such restrictions (or am i wrong?)

This is a technical fact that I am sure it's correct: "suppression" and "oversight" have the same meaning. Suppression includes suppressing revision, edit summary, log, etc.

To be honest, I don't think we are legally required to remove "confidential information" - without requests from them. Wiki contents are intended to be public, so submitting contents would mean agreeing to make them public. There may be some legal cases where this doesn't apply, but I'm sure we (most of the time) remove confidential information to reduce harm (to them) caused by making them public, and is not because of legal obligations.

We probably can restrict access to raw IP address because I don't think we ever used them - we just need to confirm that two accounts are owned by the same IP.

Also, remember that even Wikimedia has exemptions to age requirement!
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 09:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't really see a need for somebody knowing my email. There is absolutely no reason to know any PIIs besides the IP address.
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  13:43, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Email is not exposed to CUs/Suppressors, unless you write it on the wiki pages, which is probably your fault.
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 00:52, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Minor Grammatical Issue in Footer

It says "Privacy policy" instead of Privacy Policy. Should not this be fixed?
R4356th (talk | contribs) 17:00, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

It's same though and I think that it should not be capitalized because of it's a general title (bundled with MediaWiki).
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory 

It's capitalized on Scratch though
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  18:04, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Should we copy everything on Scratch's footer to here? There are a lot of links there that aren't here....
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  18:05, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

This is not a "grammatical issue" or something that must be "fixed"-- capitalization like that is common, but Scratch Wiki has the idea of Capitalizing Everything Ever. For example, the default capitalization for Special:RecentChanges is Recent chamges, but was changed on Scratch Wiki to Recent changes. As for copying over the Scratch footer, a rewrite of ScratchWikiSkin into ScratchWikiSkin3 was proposed on Discord, but I do not know if that is happening. Currently, the skin uses various MediaWiki messages, usually introducing new ones, but sometimes using existing ones, which I would guess Privacy policy is one of those cases.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 20:48, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

November Featured Images

 Done

I just updated the featured images with suggestions from the CP. Does anyone have any ideas for the next set of featured images (which will come at the end of October or the beginning of November)? If so, please post them here. Thanks!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 03:50, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

How about File:Report.PNG?

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 11:50, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

I suggest File:Change profile pic.png.

@garnetluvcookie That image doesn't exist, do you mean File:Report Screen.PNG?
TenType (talk | contribs) 22:23, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

yes, I do, I just have the worst short term memory ever :P

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 23:14, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

I suggest File:Scratch Team.jpg or File:Join Flow 7.png.
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 12:45, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Is there an archive where all the previous images are listed ?
-unsigned comment by Scratcheur-2020Send (talk | contribs)

10:57, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Heh, sorry it took so long for me to update them. I added File:Report Screen.PNG, File:Change profile pic.png, and File:Scratch Team.jpg. If you think anything should be changed (like one of the descriptions), please let me know.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 18:39, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Scratcheur-2020Send, check out Category:Featured Articles/Images (scroll down to "Media in category 'Featured Articles/Images'").
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 18:41, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

A proposal for talk page formatting

 Not done
So when we edit on talk pages, we seem to just keep indenting over and over, without any logic. I was thinking we could instead indent to show who we are replying to, sort of like this example. It would more clearly show who each person is talking to and clear up confusion. New posts would still go below old posts, but instead under what you're replying to. I'm pretty bad at explaining so you can ask for any clarification. What are your thoughts?
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  01:28, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

An idea similar to (or the same as) this idea has been suggested before, back in 2017 (wow, time flies!). I just thought I'd point that out so you could read the discussion. Also, a system where you indent to show who you're replying to is already used in some discussions by several users (see #RfC about the usage of fixed with in ScratchWikiSkin2 for an example); but it isn't the most used system, I suppose.

Also, this is nitpicking at semantics, but I would disagree with your statement that our current most popular system is "without any logic"; the very fact that users following the convention must indent one : more than the previous post gives it logic. However, again, this is nitpicking.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 01:57, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

It seems that no one ever actually came to a decision, so maybe I'll invite some people to this discussion?
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  14:10, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Hmm... I agree that there is no logical order in which we indent currently, but the alternative proposal you're suggesting also will get very complicated for longer topics. You wouldn't know who you're replying to. (This is just in my head, I'm not sure if this will work or not, my imagination says it's not going to work but I can't be so sure :D )
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  17:40, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

We could still use things like "@kaj: Why did you hack my friend?" and stuff to prevent confusion.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  18:05, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

We could just do a template like Wikipedia's "talk page" template. Anyway, nobody cannot force someone for something, so the best thing is explanation.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  18:39, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

IMO this is more confusing than the current system; we should just keep indenting the way we do now. Using stuff like "@kaj: please don't hack me I didn't do anything wrong" is more clear IMO. And often you might not be replying to anyone in particular, so where do you put it then?
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  14:32, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm not saying we completely ditch @ing people. As for not replying in particular, that would be indent level 0.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  15:36, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘This seems more confusing for me in long topics, even with using @mention in every message. For short topics, this wouldn't be too confusing, but overall, I disagree with this idea. These are just my thoughts though; maybe we could make this technique less complex for long topics?
TenType (talk | contribs) 22:18, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

LEGO BOOST Page

We have pages about the Raspberry PI system, the LEGO WeDo Construction Set system, but I'm noticing we don't have one about LEGO BOOST. I have a very less knowledge about this stuff (as always), so could somebody please take the effort to create a page containing all the information? Thanks.
Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 17:10, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Actually, we already have one at LEGO BOOST Extension, unless you mean something else.
Groko13 / talk / contribs 20:49, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

No — do you notice the red link labelled "LEGO BOOST"? Unless I'm misinterpreting it, there should be page related to what that is and how it's related to the extension. For example, the Raspberry Pi has a page about it's Scratch extension but also about it's hardware and how it's relevant to Scratch.
Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 12:27, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Capitalization issue with 3.0 blocks

Hey folks, I've been working on a project to fix and improve the LEGO BOOST extension for a while now and it's complete, but while I was doing it I noticed an issue with the 3.0 blocks on the Wiki: all of the lowercase "i"s kept turning into a capital "i" and in the code it was still lowercase. I don't know if this is a known issue, but it could be misleading.
Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 12:25, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Missing Discussions

Hello, everyone! After creating the 109^th Community Portal archive, I moved quite a few discussions to Scratch Wiki talk:Community Portal/Not Done. One upside of this is to prevent premature archiving of the CP. If you're wondering where a discussion went, it was probably either archived or moved to Not Done. Please also consider contributing to some of the discussions in Not Done!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 19:16, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Reminder

I’d like to remind y’all (no, I’m not from Kentucky or near there) that you shouldn’t assume others gender, even from their mediawiki preferences. For example, I have my gender set as “female” in my settings, though I don’t use female pronouns. It’s always best to ask someone for their pronouns, or just use the neutral pronoun “they”.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 03:36, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

I definitely agree that you shouldn't assume others' pronouns; however, I'm not sure how referring to someone based on their MediaWiki preferences is doing that. The MediaWiki preferences actually don't use the words "male," "female," etc.; they explicitly ask about your pronouns. So, if someone has that preference set as "she," for instance, then I don't think that referring to them as "she" is "assuming their gender." Of course, if someone prefers to be called something other than what is listed on that page, then users should use what they prefer instead, but then they probably wouldn't change the preference from the default (as you called it, "neutral") option ("they"). Could you please clarify why you think that referring to someone based on the pronouns they have said they prefer to be described as is "assuming their gender"? Thank you.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 03:58, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

I’m pretty sure that that changed during the update, and plus the mw magic word is gender, so misconceptions can be made. Also, I’d like to also not that someone’s gender identity doesn’t always have to line up with their pronouns (for example, I identify as a cis female and present myself irl as feminine, but I prefer gender neutral pronouns on the internet because my internet “persona” is way more different than I act in real life.)

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 04:06, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

I’d also like to note as a “straight” and “cis” ally, though this isn’t used anymore, he/she or she/he is not an OK substitute for the perfectly fine gender neutral pronoun “they”.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 04:11, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

• "I’m pretty sure that that changed during the update, ..."
  • Are you 100% sure about that? We shouldn't assume whether it did or not. Anyhow, we can get confirmation on this.
• "... and plus the mw magic word is gender, so misconceptions can be made."
  • Misconceptions can be made about anything. You just need to clear them up so they don't get made again. The purpose of that preference is so that the software knows how to correctly refer to you, so saying that you shouldn't use it as a guide to know how to refer to users goes against the point of it.
• "Also, I’d like to also not that someone’s gender identity doesn’t always have to line up with their pronouns (for example, I identify as a cis female and present myself irl as feminine, but I prefer gender neutral pronouns on the internet because my internet “persona” is way more different than I act in real life.)"
  • This is irrelevant here. As I said, the purpose of that preference is so that the software knows how to correctly refer to you, and hence it explicitly asks about your pronouns. If someone represents that preference as anything else, they are misrepresenting the preference.
• "I’d also like to note as a 'straight' and 'cis' ally, though this isn’t used anymore, he/she or she/he is not an OK substitute for the perfectly fine gender neutral pronoun 'they'."
  • I agree, but that's a different issue; why are you bringing it up here?

My points are not meant to sound harsh (I'm sorry if they do), but I'm just trying to make sure that the purpose of that preference is being addressed. Again, I agree that you shouldn't assume others' pronouns, but I disagree that using this preference to refer to someone is doing so.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 04:22, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

I get your points, but as someone who has many queer friends who feel strongly about this and so do I, (pardon me if I sound odd or rude, I’m a bit sleepy) and I just wanted to bring it up as a friendly reminder because it’s never OK to assume one’s gender, and in modern times we need to learn that. My opinions may be a bit biased, but you get the point.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 04:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Now you're changing the topic of what we're discussing. We're not discussing whether it's okay to assume users' genders (or assume users' pronouns); I think we both agree that it's never okay to do that. What we're discussing is whether using someone's pronoun preferences to refer to them is assuming their pronouns; and I don't think that referring to someone as "he" (for example) if they have selected that they prefer to be referred to as "he" is doing that.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 04:37, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

I get it now. Since it’s almost 1 AM where I am and I literally don’t have the mental energy to go in depth about anything, I’m going to call this done. if you have other concerns, feel free to contact me on my talk page sine I’ll still have this on until I fall asleep involuntarily. (Wikipedia editor moment)

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 04:51, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Alright, let's make it official:  Done. Have a good rest of your night.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 04:55, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

"Becoming a Scratcher" section

I'm going to make a section on either Scratcher or New Scratcher about how you become a Scratcher (with images for each slide of the process). Which article should I do it on?
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  11:29, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

I would say on Scratcher but make a section in New Scratcher summarizing the how-to.
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  15:05, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

So something like this?
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  15:17, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, like that...

You don't have to link a difference externally, you can just do Special:Diff/273783...
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  15:23, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

What should I do if...

 Done

What should I do if someone posts a message on my talk page just in the middle of nowhere with no subject or anything, just a message? (It still has a sig)
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 20:11, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

You can create a title for it and you can say "Message from ...".
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  20:16, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Ok, thanks!
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 20:22, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

I would say that you could just read the text, and make a subject based on that. The header is used for others to know what the basis of the conversation would be about.
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  20:37, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

@12944qwerty: if it's not included a clear subject, my suggestion may be the preferred; I think.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  20:47, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Agreed I guess. A message, if not clear, could just say "Message from ..." but I doubt that would happen often...
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  13:30, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Making search boxes

 Done
Is there a way to make search boxes in the Scratch Wiki, like the one on top of the CP, except with the "Try exact match" button and the line break before the buttons?
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 21:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

The Try Exact Match button is part of the input box. After playing around with the <inputbox> tag, I found that the type of type=search2 will give the Exact match button. type=search gives both buttons.
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  13:42, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Alright, thanks.
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 14:22, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Boi wut

 Done
[1]
There's a glitch that allows Scratchers to see dustbin topics, using 'Report Post'. Would it be notable enough if others can do it to include in the Dustbin forum topic article? Try it yourself with this link.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  11:28, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

But you don't see the topic.....
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  13:31, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

True, though you can see the title.
GrahamSH (talk | contribs) 13:47, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Does the title really matter though? I would think that the discussion would be more important.
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  14:19, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't know, it probably wouldn't be any good. I kinda just wanted to show everyone because I thought it was interesting, without people saying it's off-topic...
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  14:42, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

I clicked the link again and now it says 'Spam Dustbin'. I do not see any mentions of 'Spam Dustbin', I only see 'Dustbin'. Does anyone have more information on this?
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  17:02, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Error while viewing GIF

Every time I try to load a thumbnail of the file File:Rickroll.gif, it displays this error:
"Error creating thumbnail: convert: memory allocation failed `/tmp/transform_177876bbf04e.gif' @ error/quantize.c/QuantizeImage/2653. convert: memory allocation failed `/tmp/transform_177876bbf04e.gif' @ error/gif.c/WriteGIFImage/1693. Error code: 1"
Can someone help me? Thanks.
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 17:32, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm getting this error for only the thumbnails. The main gif at the top of the screen works perfectly fine for me
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  16:14, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Yewh, when I uploaded the image the wiki was running slow; also it's a big file so that's most likely a big part of the cause.
You just got RickRolled
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  01:57, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Is this a bug or what

In the www version (this link), it appears that you are signed out, but remove the www, you're signed in? Is this a bug, glitch, or something I missed because I'm now on the main site?

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 19:54, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

@garnetluvcookie: It's probably proposed as a redirect to the main subdomain (en.scratch-wiki.info) but however; since MediaWiki handles for only a subdomain, it's kinda unnecessary right now. The all links from www subdomain will be redirected to the main subdomain. It's not a bug nor a glitch neither a missed thing. You can also see the same thing on www.scratch.mit.edu . The fact is www subdomains are unused in most of the websites in the Internet, but the website bureaucrats redirects them to main domain/subdomain for preventing confusion.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  20:07, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

That's because the cookies are only saved for the domain for which they are issued, and www.en.scratch-wiki.info and en.scratch-wiki.info are different domains. We would strongly encourage just using en.scratch-wiki.info (without the www) to avoid such issues.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 00:18, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Subject glitch

If you can see from this image, if you hover over the "Subject" line when making a new section, a tooltip will appear about summaries, not subjects.
Can someone fix this? Thanks
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 21:51, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

There is no problem here, the subject box is for writing a "summary" of your post.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  01:54, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

New ScratchSig is deployed!

A few weeks ago, Naleksuh suggested we should develop a new ScratchSig since the old one was woefully out of date and generally a kind of hacky extension (some of you may recall the XSS vulnerability discovered a while ago). Naleksuh and I have developed a newer version of the extension that is now deployed here. The only obvious difference should be that the image does not have a border on it anymore and that userpages/talk pages that do not exist appear as redlinks since those are now rendered as wikitext instead of raw HTML. This also does finally properly handle usernames with underscores, and you can enter the username either with spaces or underscores, depending on which you prefer, and the icon will display properly. Also, for users that do not exist, the icon simply will not display.

Examples representing the situations I mentioned above:

jvvg test (talk | contribs)

jvvg_test (talk | contribs)

this user cannot exist %% (talk | contribs)

Additionally, there have been some behind the scenes changes. We took a much more defensive approach to the design of the extension to avoid any future XSS attacks or similar. We also added a much better caching system using the MediaWiki object cache. For comparison, the older version was still using a kind of janky caching system added over two years ago that was intended to be temporary.

Please post a reply here if you notice any issues. And of course I need to actually sign my post even though this is a post about scratchsig.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 02:38, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Slight fix to jobs

I have fixed an issue with jobs. After the upgrade, we were not able to run jobs in the background, so we had to attach them to requests at random (i.e. each page load had some chance of having a job processed as part of handling the request). This caused somewhat of a slowdown and also meant that jobs didn't always run as quickly as would have been ideal. Now, jobs are run by a cron job that runs separately from any request. This should result in a slight performance improvement.

That's all. Other than that, nothing should change.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 02:35, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Haven't jobs been broken for a long time lol?
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  01:16, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

One specific job was broken for a long time, and that was fixed with the upgrade. Other jobs were working as expected. However, the ability to run jobs at all was broken by the upgrade (or at least the ability to run them via a cron job, so we had to attach them to requests again). However, this has all been fixed.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 01:33, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Table of contents

Hey everyone. I've seen on some pages that they have a table of contents. How do I get that to appear? Sorry for the short section.
8bitjake (talk | contribs) 15:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)8bitjake

They will automatically generate if the page has enough content.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  15:17, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Give the right of deletion of messages on their own talk pages to users

For example, here is a good example of it in Wikipedia: here. I think that the system also may work fine on Scratch Wiki. Although this rules are against to deletion of talk pages, this might be good for users whose do not want to archive (though it's accessible from history).
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  12:49, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't really think this is a good idea. For one, I wouldn't want to write up a message and then have a user just delete it because they feel like it. Also, the messages should be kept for reference purposes in the future. So I don't really like this idea.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  12:52, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

But the messages are always accessible through history, because we're not allowing to the deletion of page.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  12:57, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

But it's far easier to go to a subpage than to dig through page history.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  15:07, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

No, you can just filter from date and user contribs. That shouldn't be hard.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  15:11, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

"shouldn't be hard" on a small talk page sure, but not on large ones. I hated on wikipedia where I made a post on a talk page and someone else (not even the owner of the talk page!) removed saying it was incorrect. I added it back and then the actual owner of the talk page removed it. It was very blantant plagiarism (word for word copied). Stuff like this shouldn't happen. No support.
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  19:51, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

When someone removes a message from their talk page, you may take that as an indication that they have read the message. Talk page owners should be allowed to remove messages from them. If your objection is simply to the message being removed and nothing else, that is not something that is problematic when either the message violates policy or it is being removed by the owner of the talk page. If the objection is that removing the message is an attempt at avoiding scruntiny, you are free to take any actions that you would otherwise if the message was not removed, such as reverting or raising complaints at /Admin Requests. Therefore, there is no reason to prevent removal of messages from the owner's talk page. While waiting until time has passed then archiving them may be preferred and is done on public venues such as this page, there is no need to require that.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 20:07, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Re-RFC for S:NOSP

I think that we must edit restrictions about mods and user generated content. For example: we shouldn't create an another namespace for user-generated content, the users are already creating them on their subpages. And it must be possible to delete old and not notable mod pages.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  07:44, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I think that the date the page is created is irrelevant. Either the subject is notable, or it is not.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 02:01, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Updating all the blocks categorys footer to 3.0 mode

Hey folks ! This was the current pen extension footer :

What the 3.0 version will be :

Please vote  Yes if you want this to be changed or  No if you don't want below ! I will take decision the 1st of november.
Scratcheur-2020Send (talk | contribs)19:05, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

I am not voting, but I think EW+ (users that are Experienced Wikians or above) should have the final decision of this. Although, if your second design is chosen, the other block categories might need to be updated to reflect that design
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 07:48, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Yes, i know about that... the pen footer was just a preview exemple
-unsigned comment by Scratcheur-2020Send (talk | contribs) 08:21, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

" EW+ (users that are Experienced Wikians or above) should have the final decision of this" No, wikis resolve around consensus and it is not the role of Experienced Wikians to ignore that. Unless this was in reference to the "I will take decision the 1st of november." comment by OP, in which case I agree OP should not close the discussion as they are involved as the proposer.

As for the content change in question, I think the old version is better both as there is no need to embed a block there and the "This block was a Pen Extension Block" sentence makes no sense in this context as it is the title for the navbox, not a part of the page body.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 02:02, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Basically what Naleksuh said, I vote no; it's way overbloated and takes away from the article. No support
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  19:47, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

 No support for the reasons Naleksuh and VFDan stated. I also think the current footer works fine, and if anything should be updated there, it would just be changing the color to match the 3.0 blocks.
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 20:51, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Why is there Language Tutorials?

 Not done

So, there's this, which has other programming language tutorials. This is kind of weird, especially in the Scratch Wiki. I know the "comparing other programming languages with Scratch" thing, but they could just link to other programming language websites. Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 00:27, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

The Language Tutorials here also compare the code to Scratch code, making it a better starting point for people trying to transition.

And I spent a solid amount of time on the C++ tutorials...
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  14:41, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Edit: added not done. Also, add more tutorials? Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 00:27, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

The language tutorials was a project that we started a long time ago in order to increase the diversity of topics and more solidly provide people with suggestions for post-Scratch programming experiences.
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 02:46, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Some interesting stats on the language program. Since its conception in August 2018 we've pulled in approx. 2600 organic viewers for the page. When you look at the graph there are a few days when editors are working on it which increases total count (blue) vs. organic count (orange). Overall I think the program has a lot of potential to pull in a stable organic user page as it continues to expand.
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 02:53, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Thankful Thursday! October 29^th, 2020

Welcome to the 33^rd Thankful Thursday! October 29^th, 2020.

What is Thankful Thursday?

Thankful Thursday is a way of showing appreciation to other Wikians. Feel free to congratulate someone for finishing a large page, or even just give minor thanks for a minor edit. Just remember to keep everything positive!

How to Thank

We have a whole wiki page on it! You can find it here: Thankful Thursday

Thanks

The Thanks are *drum roll please*

User	Thanks
Bigpuppy (talk | contribs)	Thank you for all that you do on the Wiki! Also, thanks for always answering my questions when I ask them! You're an amazing administrator on the Wiki Keep up the great work!   Illusion705 talk | contribs  00:20, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Thank you for being so full of empathy and care for others! You're always so kind, and you make such big contributions to both Scratch and the Scratch Wiki all the time. It's truly a miracle how kind you can be sometimes, and thank you for being such an amazing member of the Wiki! Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 13:18, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Thank you for your countless helpful edits to the Wiki!  Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  11:16, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
kenny2scratch (talk | contribs)	Thank you for helping to shape the wiki to where it is now! garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 00:38, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Thank you for being here for so long and helping us out so much! Unfortunately, I had to remove TenType's version of your canned summaries code since I never really used it much and it was starting to get annoying, but still, thank you for making such a helpful additional feature! Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 13:18, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
Naleksuh (talk | contribs)	Thank you for being a helpful contributor! garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 00:38, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Thank you so much for fixing my mistakes and also generally helping out so much on the Wiki! You're so consistent when editing and are so dedicated to it, it's honestly amazing. Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 13:18, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
MartinWollenweber (talk | contribs)	Thank you so much for hosting the Wiki! garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 00:38, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Without you, this thing wouldn't exist — you have no idea how thankful I am, even that word isn't enough to express it. -unsigned comment by Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs)
jvvg (talk | contribs)	Thank you for helping us for so long! garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 00:38, 30 September 2020 (UTC) WOW, man, you've helped us for so many years and are still going! You can still be so helpful and knowledgeable after all this time, and it's honestly amazing. Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 13:18, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Thanks for all of your helpful actions in the Wiki.  ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  15:02, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Thank you for helping to update the Scratch Wiki and providing updates for the progress of the update! 4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 19:47, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
TenType (talk | contribs)	Thank you for making so many edits and being such an amazing Experienced Wikian (my dear question friend)! You've always helped me so much, even in recent times, and I think Thankful Thursday will always be incomplete without you in the list. Also, I removed your version of Kenny's canned summaries code since it was starting to get rather annoying and it I never really used it, but still, thank you for putting the effort into improving such an helpful feature! *cough cough* anyway, this doesn't mean i'm not going to bombard you with more questions- Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 13:18, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
Jammum (talk | contribs)	Thank you for making so many contributions and always being on Recent Changes! You're in my top list of most consistent contributors, and it's really unbelievable how dedicated some can be! Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 13:18, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
Garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs)	Ahh, you're starting to become such a big part of the community and you're always contributing so much on the CP! Continuing your forum helping journey, here, right? I expected it! Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 13:19, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
Apple502j (talk | contribs)	Thanks for being helpful so much in the background of Scratch Wiki systems!  ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  15:02, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Thanks for helping out so much with the Scratch and Scratch Wiki development — you definitely need a pretty high knowledge of programming and effort to do something like that. You're also generally very helpful on the CP and on the Scratch forums. Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 15:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
Turkey3 (talk | contribs)	Thanks for creating this page, it was very helpful and I definitely learnt a lot about clones and sprites while editing it. I never knew private variables were so powerful, and I feel so satisfied about learning it. Nambaseking01 (talk | contribs) 15:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

“

There are many more people on this wiki who deserve these comments just as much as those who received them. :) Everyone is special and brings their own ideas. The more of us there are, the better the community spirit. Sadly, I must sign off now- Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 01:06, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

”

The next TT is, November 26^th, see you then!
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 01:04, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

 Done
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 01:04, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Prevent categories from being added to userspace via AbuseFilter

It is possible for categories to be added to userspace pages, which are not supposed to have categories.

I think categories being added to userspace pages is quite common, and could be prevented by AbuseFilter.

The only exception should be Category:Pages in Need of Deletion.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 16:13, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

(Bumping this) The category marking open userpages should also be an exception.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 07:08, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

The most common way categories are added to userpages is via templates, and unfortunately AbuseFilter does not actually parse the page/do transclusion drilldown. This would require maintaining a list of templates that have categories attached to them. This would also require an exception looking for the |cat=no, which would be a pain to implement properly.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 21:15, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Unused User Images Mass Deletion

 Done

Within the coming days, unused Users' Images and Users' Logos will be tagged for deletion. After marking the images with {{Unused user image}}, they will be deleted around two weeks later. If you do not want your user image deleted, simply delete the template on the image you want to keep. I will update you all about my progress here. If you do not want any images to be deleted, please post a comment below! Thank you.
KrIsMa talk | contribs | edits 03:59, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Unused images have been marked for deletion. Please review Category:Unused Users' Images for the list of images. Please note the deletion date has been changed from two weeks later to one week later, meaning they will be deleted on or after November 8, 2020. Please delete the template on the image if you want to keep the image. Thank you!
KrIsMa talk | contribs | edits 18:20, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Completed.
KrIsMa talk | contribs | edits 03:29, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Talk pages redirect

-unsigned comment by Scratcheur-2020Send (talk | contribs) 18:01, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Why do they need to be deleted?
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 19:18, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

They are unneeded
-unsigned comment by Scratcheur-2020Send (talk | contribs) 19:45, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

How?
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 20:54, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

As of right now, the bureaucrats and admins have said that it's not sure whether they should be deleted yet. The {{delete}} templates have been removed. Please reach a consensus first before adding mass deletion templates. However, thank you for wanting to contribute!
TenType (talk | contribs) 02:50, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Scratchblocks images

Hi, the Scratch Wiki is currently filled with 2.0 blocks screenshots.I think these pictures should be deleted because :

1. They are outdated
2. These pictures can be replaced with blocks
3. They are pixelized

A bunch of pictures can be found here

Scratcheur-2020Send (talk | contribs)19:14, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

From what I've known, current scratchblocks images are kept for historical reasons, but new scratchblocks images uploaded recently should be deleted.
TenType (talk | contribs) 20:20, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Downtime?

 Done
At around 8:40 AM ET, the Scratch Wiki was down, only showing a 503. Was anyone else getting this issue, and why did the servers crash?
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 13:47, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

This happens occasionally, unfortunately. This is an issue with our current server that happens when they are receiving more traffic than they can handle. We have taken measures to reduce how often this happens but haven't been able to completely eliminate it. As a longer-term solution, we are currently in the process of planning a server transfer, though that is probably still a ways off.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 15:22, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Ah, I see. I'll mark this  Done now.
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 15:24, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Should there be a template to mark custom signatures which do not follow signature guidelines?

Question is in the title. Although, templates only used on userspace pages might not be allowed and adding that template might violate userspace rules. Such template also needs to be hidden when the signature is transcluded or forces a user to use the default ScratchSig (unless that would also break userspace rules).
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 15:44, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Please don't edit others' userpages (including templates and signatures), even if they don't meet formatting guidelines (if it violates SCGs, then it's ok to remove it). First, ask the user on their talk page, and if that doesn't get results within a few days, contact an EW+.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 16:05, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

I now presume such template would be rejected per jvvg's comment, so I will consider this  Done.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 16:37, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

My username starts with a lowercase letter

 Not done
On the Scratch website you will notice my username (brooc210) starts with a lowercase letter but on the Scratch Wiki it starts with a uppercase letter. So is it ok to use {{DISPLAYTITLE:User:brooc210}} on my userpage? I also found out that if you template it, it ignores it because itʼs not part of the page (I found this out by templating the page Snap! (programming language) on the sandbox without saving but using the preview).
brooc210 (talk | contribs) This is a signature!

You can rename your userpage and your talk to the lowercase username
-unsigned comment by Scratcheur-2020Send (talk | contribs) 13:42, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

@Scratcheur-2020Send: That is not possible, see what I wrote below.

Due to MediaWiki restrictions, usernames must start with an uppercase letter. Displaytitle is the closest anyone can get to having a lowercase username.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 14:07, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

So do you think I should?
brooc210 (talk | contribs) This is a signature! 14:39, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, you can use displaytitle for that. We actually have a dedicated template specifically for this purpose. Unfortunately due to the way MediaWiki works, everything needs to start with a capital letter, including usernames. As "jvvg", I can commiserate with you.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 20:51, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

"Watchlist" Details

 Done
So, I know that the watchlist allows for you to keep track of edits made to certain Wiki pages, but I also noticed that there is a button labeled "Live Updates" that shows up when you go here. Does anyone know what that does?
84375 (talk | contribs) 02:53, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Oops, never mind, I just figured it out. Marking as  Done.
84375 (talk | contribs) 03:33, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Talk page (for pages not users) archives?

 Not done Title.
Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 00:25, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

What specifically are you asking? Are you talking about if this exists or you are suggesting it?
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 19:21, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

How do I bring attention to a specific talk page to discuss an article?

 Done

And while I'm asking, is it proper etiquette to bring attention to one of them, or do you have to wait for someone to come across it naturally?
EZ-Games (talk | contribs) 17:06, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

I recommend using the discussion invitation system as you can just send a message to people on the list on their talk page (Just remember to respect their limits) Most of the time they will respond to the message and check out the talk page you linked.
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 19:05, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Ah yes, this is what I was looking for. Thank you! I'll be marking this as  Done now.
EZ-Games (talk | contribs) 02:01, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

When someone edits your talk page, it says you have a new message from another user.

Well, sorry for another topic, but this is a bug so i'll bring it up. Title says it all.
Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 00:15, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

That is intentional, so users know when they recieved a message and so the user who recieves the message can deal with the message quicker.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 07:28, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, but if someone edits their message... -snip-
Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 20:55, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

It's kinda hard to make an exception for notifying people for editing their message.
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 21:58, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Hmm.. We should send the user a message only if they add something to the talk page! Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 14:50, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

It's extremely difficult to automatically determine if an edit to your talk page was a new message or a modification to an existing one (this was an issue I came across writing WikiMonitor when detecting unsigned posts, and in the end my algorithm is still not 100% perfect). Therefore, MediaWiki (the platform this Wiki runs on) will notify you whenever your talk page is modified, since it is considered important that you know whenever someone modifies it.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 22:14, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Does MediaWiki send a notification whenever another user m minor edits a user talk page? If yes, then is there a way to make it so that it doesn't?
TenType (talk | contribs) 17:16, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Please answer that, jvvg! Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 15:22, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Suggestions for highlighting active notifications in Echo

A few times, it has been suggested we add the Echo extension, which, in a nutshell, would allow users to be notified when mentioned on talk pages (and provide various other kinds of notifications as well. There has never been any major objection, but in the current version of MediaWiki and the extension, the styling causes significant issues with our current skin. I have been able to overcome those challenges, resulting in this:

However, one major thing remains. That is how do we emphasize individual menu items that have active notifications (for example, the "notices" link in this screenshot)? The only idea I was able to come up with myself is a badge similar to what displays next to the user menu at the top of that screenshot, but don't think that's a great idea since with the icons, those links already are pretty wide. Does anyone else have any suggestions?
jvvg (talk | contribs) 22:25, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Undeletion of GameBender

Should be procedurally undeleted as the reason provided for deletion is flatly not true-- users:ericr is involved in development and last time I checked they are a Scratch Team member. To the deleting sysop I will say that this is why discussion is important and not simply running around deleting whatever.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 02:51, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

The deletion reason says:

unless a reliable source that says a *current* ST member is involved is included, this is akin to a Scratch Mod which we now disallow by policy. Additionally there isn't enough content to warrant a full article, especially since it's not released yet.

Please, at least read the reason of the deletion, and give the link to the reliable source.
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 08:38, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Apple502j, this page is labelled "Admin Requests" and involves the undeletion of a page. You are not an admin, nor may you undelete pages. The request to "at least read the reason of the deletion" when I already quoted and addressed it above does not help either.

I am not able to reference the content of the page, obviously as it has been deleted, however if my memory serves the page was well-sourced and clearly indicated the involvement. Even if it is not, sources being found are a part of the deletion discussion process, which again does not appear to have taken place at all. As such, the page should be restored and, at most, tagged with {{NotUseful}} (although the page would likely be kept due to the concerns in the nom statement being falsified instantly).
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 06:46, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

(note: this section is moved to CP, per the CPSYS guidelines)

Even though I'm not able to undelete, I can delete the page - in fact, the deletion is suggested by me on the talk page first, and we didn't have any response for more than two weeks. Also, the discussion is now moved to the Community Portal (see the CPSYS rules), so nothing is preventing me from posting this, both as an EW and as a user.

Saying "I read the reason" implies that you will also act accordingly; the reason specifically asked reliable sources, and you didn't provide any, at least in your posts. The deletion is (mostly) because Ken did not think that the citations given are either not enough, or incredible; so you have to explain how the page was "well-sourced". (If you need the deleted page's source, I can ask admins to post it somewhere.)

Finally: I'm sure we do not restore pages if they need NotUseful template.
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 10:43, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Deleted article (for reference) User:Naleksuh/GameBender
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 10:57, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I deleted the article for a few reasons.

First off, nothing in it mentioned ericr's involvement, nor are there any sources that directly mention such. The GameBender website lists him as a "collaborator" which is not enough involvement for the purposes of NOSP - had he been listed as part of "Team GameBender" I would have maybe considered this a valid invocation of the rule, but a single name mention could have been one line of code.

Even if he had been part of the team, it's still not allowed. Notability requirements expressly forbid Scratch Mods, and as far as I can see, and as far as the article describes, this is very much a Scratch Mod - it modifies Scratch to add bells and whistles. The ST-member exception is very clear that the article must meet normal notability requirements - this does not meet them.

A couple final notes:

• CPSYS explicitly states that it's "for actions requiring admin/EW attention that need no discussion". Apple is an EW, and it turned out that it needed discussion. Ergo, the topic was moved here.
• The sum total of the sources was the GB website, on which I had to scroll all the way down to find the "Team" link in the footer, then scroll all the way past the "Team GameBender" section to find Eric Rosenbaum in the list of "Collaborators"; and three Vimeo links which had no people in them, just demonstrations of GB itself. There was no clear indication of his involvement.
• Please don't say "you are not an admin" in an effort to shut someone up. Anyone that is technically able to reply has a say, even if they can't actually execute some of the actions required.

I appreciate your effort to bring content to the Wiki, but please consider the notability and suitability of the future articles you create. The article stays deleted.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  11:25, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Apple502j, my purpose in suggesting the addition of the NotUseful template was that no discussion surrounding deletion had taken place at all. It does not make sense for pages to be deleted without discussion but then require discussion for them to be undeleted. The purpose of restoring the page with the NotUseful template would be to fostor discussion (it would also require the nominator to actually show problems instead of simply deleting in violation of policy). In addition, I was by no means suggesting that the article qualified for the NotUseful template-- I specifically indicated that it would likely be kept as well.

Kenny2scratch, it should be abundantly clear that the page in question was not a "Scratch modification" in the slightest (Scratch modifications are software, the page in question was about a piece of hardware). It does not seem to fit into any of the categories and is generally thought to be allowed as a semi-official product (around as notable as, say, LEGO WeDo). Regardless, claims such as "the article stays deleted" are generally made by uninvolved administrators, and you are by no means uninvolved.

It should (hopefully) be clear to any uninvolved administrator that the page did not meet the criteria for speedy deletion in any way, and even if the normal deletion venue was used, the nominator made no attempt to S:BEFORE, as well as the fact that the page in question is not about a third-party Scratch modification but a piece of hardware officially affiliated with Scratch which is well-documented in other venues.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 20:08, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

I suggested the deletion on the talk page in October; nobody (including Naleksuh yourself) responded it, though, so it was safe to assume that nobody was against that idea. Additionally, English Scratch Wiki rules, AFAIK, do not require discussion before (un)deleting something. Admins can undelete without discussion; but that does not mean admins have to undelete wihout discussion. They can decide.

GameBender is both a hardware and a software (because you can't just play Scratch with a CPU and RAM). LEGO WeDo (and other stuff like micro:bit) are used in the official Scratch extensions and available at scratch.mit.edu, while anyone can claim to be one of the Scratch Team members and put their names on their website. One example of this was "Dexter Industries GoPiGo For Raspberry Pi", which was deleted because it was not notable.

Any administrators can take action.

And finally: S:NOTWP. We do not have speedy delete and normal delete, and S:BEFORE is deadlink. (jawiki is the only wiki, AFAIK, that has both). A question: is there any website that mentions ST members are involved "as ST member" (i.e. not as a hobby). on scratch.mit.edu or other websites that are not GameBender official website?
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 03:34, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

I will say that "We do not have speedy delete and normal delete" is not true, that is exactly what we have ("speedy delete" being Template:Delete and "normal delete" being [[Template:NotUseful). However, I concede with the fact that the page in question actually was nominated for deletion. I was not aware of this until it was actually deleted. This may be an issue with the deletion process that can be resolved elsewhere.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 04:00, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Promoting apple502j

Hi everyone,

I'm suggesting promoting apple502j to adminship.

apple502j (talk | contribs) has been an excellent and active user both in jawiki and enwiki, and I'm sure that anyone in the wiki can agree that by looking contributions both in wikis and code contributions on the wiki extensions. However, sometimes it seems he has lack on accessing to tools - protection, undeletion, and on handling stuffs around the wiki. (we've recently see that on restoring deleted pages)

With in this mind, I'm suggesting that promoting apple502j to adminship with the agreement of admins and wiki community. You can vote it by  Yes and  No for whether you're supporting or not supporting promotion of apple502j to adminship.

I will start: I vote  Yes.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  11:30, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

I disagree. Apple is not experienced enough on enwiki (for comparison, Bigpuppy was promoted 30 months after he became EW; Apple has been EW for 14 months), and he already has full access to jawiki which I think keeps his hands full - adding enwiki adminship would only add to his burden. Unless other admins think otherwise, I consider this  Rejected.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  11:25, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

 Support! even though it's not election time
Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 15:35, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

 Strong oppose While I assume this request was filed due to my recent comment that Apple502j is not an admin, this was mentioned both in attempt against "non-admin closures", but more importantly the comment was erroneous. As for whether or not Apple502j should become an admin, this comment is enough to warrant a strong oppose on its own. Naleksuh mentioned that current system is like a hierarchy - and that is true. However, this is supposed to happen. is the complete opposite spirit that would be expected from anyone who wants to request adminship. This has happened on several other occasions as well such as Special:Diff/263805 where the candidate proclaimed that a "rule is now clear" because one sysop wrote a comment proclaiming something. While this is the strongest point from anyone who wants to request adminship, even if all of that was to be ignored, it is questionable whether they are even here to contribute to the enecylopedia at all. Out of the candidate's 50 most recent edits, only two of them were to mainspace. Yes, two. Overall, I see no evidence of directing improvement towards the wiki and much more towards trying to act authoritatively, which is the polar opposite of anyone who should be trying to request adminship.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 20:08, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

I am explicitly neutral on the specific idea of promoting apple502j. That being said, (specifically to Naleksuh), the hostile tone of your recent messages, including this one, is not acceptable.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 23:28, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Kinda busy right now, please reject this.
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 07:50, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Prevent links to Scratch profiles in mainspace

Linking to Scratch profiles in mainspace is against Wiki Guidelines, and I think it is a bit common. If this is accepted, AbuseFilter could be used. Both non-interwiki and Interwiki links to profiles should be detected.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 15:58, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

What's AbuseFilter?
Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 23:01, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

AbuseFilter is an extension we use to automatically enforce various policies. Currently, it's used for filtering inappropriate language, preventing New Wikians from editing others' userpages without permission, blocking uploading large files (images above a certain size can cause problems on the server), blocking uploading files without a category, and preventing moves/deletions without a summary (see Special:AbuseFilter for more). As for the original suggestion, is this a common problem that comes up? I wouldn't be willing to add this unless it is, and it is also possible that there might be a legitimate reason (just thinking out loud here, linking to a ST member's profile as an example profile page) and then that would add technical and administrative overhead.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 23:26, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Oh. User:Lovecodeabc/Signature 15:15, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Featured Studios/Currently Featured‎

There should be a program that checks a few times a day if a studio has been featured, and if so, updates Featured Studios/Currently Featured so it will always match what is on the Scratch front page.
Mlcreater (talk | contribs) 19:36, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

What would happen if...

What would happen if I edited this page? You're supposed to upload a file, but I'm curious what would happen if you edited a new file page without uploading a file.
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 16:44, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Is the link invalid? It's telling me the page has been deleted and I would need to re-create it first.
J_Coder26 (talk | contribs) 23:42, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

That is intentional for this "what if" situation.
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 23:46, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Oh, ok I get what you were saying now. But I'm not sure, sorry.
J_Coder26 (talk | contribs) 01:39, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

That's OK
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 02:03, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

My signature

 Done
Hi, I have question. My signature's timestamp is not formatting correctly. (image) Does anyone know why this may be? You can view the code for my sig at User:Leahcimto/Signature. Thanks!
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile

I tested removing the <br/>, that may work. I didn't save any changes since editing userspace is against the rules, though, so you'll have to do it yourself.
78ch3 : [My talk] | [Contribs] | [Main] 09:46, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

When I remove it, my signature goes on the same line as my text :/
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 13:53, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Does anyone else know how I can fix it?
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 16:19, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Nevermind, there was an extra space in my minisig.
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 15:54, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

"ScratchWikiSkin" Source Code - How do I get it?

Hello everyone!
This is a short message, but I feel like I should ask.
How do I get the source code of the "ScratchWikiSkin" in the Preferences menu? And, if possible, what is the source code? 🤔
I was wondering about this because I want the skin for Wikipedia, however skins not included with Wikipedia have to be implemented using CSS or Javascript. If you can find the code, THANK YOU!
Thanks again,

8bitjake (talk | contribs) 16:24, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Here is ScratchWikiSkin2, found on the Scratch Wiki github.
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 17:40, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Please delete these pages.

Hey, Scratch Wiki! This topic will be different from normal. Earlier today, I made some pages I want to delete now. However, I am not an admin, and I don't want to flag them as candidates for deletion. Please let an admin know about this. Here are all pages I want deleted.
Scratch_Wiki:April_Fools/Scratch_Wiki:April_Fools/User:8bitjake
Scratch_Wiki:April_Fools/Scratch_Wiki:April_Fools/Scratch_Wiki:April_Fools/User:8bitjake
User:8bitjake/Templates/Sidebar
Yep, that's all of them. I will make a new topic when I want new pages deleted.

8bitjake (talk | contribution | scratch)

I'm not an admin, but maybe you should ask a specific person so that you can get a response faster =)
J_Coder26 (talk | contribs) 23:49, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

To let an EW+ know you want those pages deleted, put {{delete}} at the top of the page.
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 00:23, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

 Done - in the future, we also have Scratch Wiki talk:Community Portal/Admin Requests for stuff like this.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 01:51, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

How can I make my whole talk page a certain font?

 Done
Title. I have tried using the span style tags, but that only does one line at a time. Is there someting else I can use to do the whole page?
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 00:29, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

If you put <div style="font-face:my font"> at the very top (and do not close it), that will apply a font to your whole page. If you do this, please make sure not to use a font/style that is too difficult to read.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 01:53, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! I'll mark this as  Done now.
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 13:58, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

2nd Sandbox

So, I happened to notice that bigpuppy had made a 2nd sandbox here and I wanted to make a 2nd sandbox myself for experimental purposes. Do I just do that by creating a new page called "User:J_Coder26/Sandbox2" which I did here? I'm not sure if there's a specific way to do this or I'm just supposed to create a new page, so if anyone could let me know that would be helpful. Thanks.
J_Coder26 (talk | contribs) 08:12, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

You're right, you can name it whatever you want - for example, "Sandbox2" or "Another sandbox".
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 15:21, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Alright, thank you.
J_Coder26 (talk | contribs) 16:42, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Signature template - Is it possible?

HELLO WORLD! I was wondering if it is possible to set your signature - the 3 tildas - to be a template. In other words, your signature calls a template. In this case, {{User:8bitjake/Templates/Siggy}}
Here are both my signatures, with the latter being my current one (the default), and the former being my wanted signature.

8bitjake (talk | contribution | scratch)

8bitjake (talk | contribs)
If you can find a way to make a signature a template - THANK YOU! Thanks again,
8bitjake (talk | contribs) 20:37, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

See S:SIG
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  03:30, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Question

What's happened in the last few months on the wiki? I've been a bit swamped with schoolwork so I'm just asking since my last real activity was around late September.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 14:11, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

The CP's been archived(I think), Jackson49 joined, (he is so helpful), Project's intro picture changed,

yeah, that's baciclly all that happened. Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 14:04, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

2020 Election?

Hi! So, I'm new to the Scratch Wiki, so I'm not well informed about this yet, so sorry if this is obvious or irrelevant, but is there going to be a 2020 election for new Administrators or Experienced Wikians? From what I can find, it looks like there is an election once per year, yet I can't find any info for a 2020 election, despite 2020 being almost over. Is there going to be one soon?
Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 02:40, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

 Rejected Well, we're tired of elections (especially after a big, real one) - maybe next year (though not sure). We had a new administrator this year so that's enough.
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 03:35, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for your info! By the way, I wasn't suggesting an election. I was just asking if there was going to be one, but I got enough info from your answer, so thanks.
Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 14:10, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

To be a bit more specific, we have elections on an as-needed basis rather than following any sort of fixed schedule. We currently have sufficient EW+, but will hold an election if the situation changes to the point where we determine we need more. Also, as apple502j said, elections are time consuming and a distraction from regular Wiki operations, so we try not to have them too often.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 17:17, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

WikiMonitor

 Done Hi, WikiMonitor has been giving me a lot of "unsigned" messages, but the linked edits are me marking something as done on my talk page. Does anyone know how I can get WikiMonitor to ignore the edits of me marking topics as done, preferably without the {{NoBots}} template?
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 22:16, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Check the 'this is a minor edit' box when you add the Done template. Also, I think WikiMonitor ignores NoBots.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 07:50, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks!  Done
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 21:07, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, marking an edit as minor will cause it to be ignored. I did my best to determine what counts as a message vs. not a message, but that's a nearly impossible task to get universally right with a basic algorithm. Please do not add {{NoBots}} just to avoid getting notifications if you are getting a lot of notifications for actual mistakes you made (if any) though, as I have the ability to override that if I determine someone is abusing the template.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 21:47, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Why did you move servers?

You moved from the US to Germany, right? Why did you move servers?
Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 15:19, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

I'll give the very short version: the Wiki was for a long time directly run by the ST. They were in charge of technical maintenance, were (for all intents and purposes) the only users with bureaucrat privileges (think stuff like modifying system settings, modifying user permissions, blocking, etc.), and paid for the hosting. However, the ST didn't have much direct involvement with the community, so often such changes that needed to be made required contacting a ST member, which could take a while to get a response. At the same time, the Wiki EW+ faced a lot of obstacles in getting things done for these reasons, since we couldn't actually make any changes directly and instead had to go via the ST. Furthermore, the ST did not want to continue being responsible for both funding and maintaining the Wiki. While all of this was happening, the Scratch Wikis in other languages (the flagship one being German) existed independently and were not maintained by the ST. Eventually, an arrangement to give the Wiki community direct control and relieve the ST of the responsibility of maintaining was reached, and that was that the Wiki would be moved to be hosted alongside the other non-English Wikis, and that's where we are now.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 21:52, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, but the fair use problem and stuff...
Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 01:55, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunately there is also the funding angle of this. The hosting was already funded (and still is) for a host in Germany, but to run it in the United States, we would have to fund it ourselves. We are considering moving the server back to the United States and working out a funding arrangement, but so far don't have an official plan.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 02:45, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

What should be done about a bad reference?

 Done What if an article has a reference that does not prove the fact it is placed after?
Mlcreater (talk | contribs) 01:44, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

In that case, remove the reference and add {{citation needed}}.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 02:44, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

 Done
Mlcreater (talk | contribs) 04:07, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Question

You don't have the visual editor on talk pages. Why, oh, why?
Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 00:48, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

The short answer is that it doesn't work well with talk pages (yet). Once MediaWiki can make it work better with talk pages, we can enable it there.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 18:44, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

 Done
Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 21:52, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

12^th anniversary of Scratch Wiki!

Yay!
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  17:43, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 20:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Whoo-hoo! Happy 12^th anniversary Scratch Wiki!
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 20:29, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Yay, happy 12^th birthday!
someone bake a birthday cake, the name of the person is "Scratch Wiki", it's his 12th birthday
Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 21:56, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Yay! Happy 12^th anniversary Scratch Wiki! Look, I even made some cupcakes:

hope thats enough for all gobo's friends
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 22:14, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

TenType (talk | contribs) 22:18, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

I made a cake! 🎂 Scratch Cat Gobo Pico Nano Giga
ENOUGH
Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 13:59, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Upgrade MediaWiki

Title. Special:Version (1.3.5) vs this (1.3.6)
Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 22:15, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

MediaWiki version 1.3.6 is not available to the public yet as I can see.
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 23:09, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Also, upgrading MediaWiki is a fairly major undertaking. It takes 30-90 minutes per wiki during which the Wiki being upgraded must be down completely and there are a total of nine Wikis. Additionally, we generally have to do a lot of prep work, like doing a dry run to make sure none of our custom software breaks and see if we need to do any configuration updates. As a result, we generally only install major updates (LTS versions) unless there is a critical feature/bug fix. Anyway, the current stable version available to the public is still 1.35, with 1.36 not released yet.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 00:30, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Jvvg, the last time MediaWiki had been updated here being how it was was due to an exceptional circumstance involving previous changes and updating from an unsupported version. In general, standard updates are merely a routine task and are not a major project, nor do they require downtime (WMF wikis update seemlessly weekly).

Lovecodeabc, MediaWiki.org runs WMF builds of MediaWiki, which are modified distributed on a weekly basis and are not intended for public use such as Scratch Wiki. The latest stable version is still 1.35.0, which is what Scratch Wiki is currently using. The current supported versions can be tracked at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Version_lifecycle.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 08:01, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

We are using LTS versions, so the problem with 1.28 should not exist for at least 2.5 years now. We also use several extensions that are created by us, and we have to test that it works, before using them.

Most of WMF weekly updates do not involve huge database changes - the "downtime" is mostly for changes that require DB lock. It may also be a way to reduce bandwidth while files are being transported, but I'm not sure.

If it's a patch update, sure, it should be easy - but "major" upgrade is not. But at least we have 2.5 years.
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 13:25, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Is Visual Editor enabled by default?

 Done
For new users to be more specific.
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 22:30, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

No. I had to go to Special:Preferences and enable the visual editor.
Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 14:00, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Does the edit option appear as "Edit" or "Edit source" before you enabled VE?
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 17:27, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

It is "Edit": I do not have Visual enabled
Mlcreater (talk | contribs) 17:29, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

IIRC it was enabled for me following the update.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  14:58, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Alrighty, thanks for the help!  Done
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 17:11, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Archive the CP

^^^^
Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 14:06, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Not very big, we can kee it for now.  Done
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 18:20, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Suggestion

 Not done
Yeah, so when you get a notification because a page on your watchlist changed, look closely, and you'll see it:

Sent from account-requests@scratch-wiki.info

Weird, huh? We should change it!
Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 23:40, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

I never noticed that. I'll look into it.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 01:45, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

I think it's been updated. Please let me know if there are any further issues.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 16:30, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't think it's fixed yet- I just got a watchlist notification 19 hours ago and it still is from account-requests@scratch-wiki.info
TenType (talk | contribs) 18:26, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Hmm. The relevant lines in LocalSettings.php are:

$wgEmergencyContact = "contact@scratch-wiki.com";
$wgPasswordSender = "account-requests@scratch-wiki.info";
$wgNoReplyAddress = 'no-reply@scratch-wiki.info';

If anyone knows anything else to change, please let me know.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 18:48, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Might be that you didn't create those email adressses.
Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 12:52, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

No, that wouldn't affect it.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 17:03, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

$wgPasswordSender is the address used to send all site emails. It was originally for password resets but has somewhat evolved as MediaWiki begins sending more and more types of emails. You can simply change that to a different value if a different one is desired.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 19:58, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Now, when I get an email it is from account-requests but the reply-to email is no-reply@scratch-wiki.info.
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 22:34, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Nobots template not working

So, the nobots template is showing as a red link, or dissapers. Can you help?
HacksonJackson (talk | contribs) 23:07, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

I might be wrong, but I think it's because it starts with a lowercase n. It should be NoBots
Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 23:11, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

The fact that nothing changes is intentional. Bots are designed to check if the template is there, and if you look at the template code, there's mostly nothing in it. The template is blank. If you get a red link, make sure you spelt NoBots correctly.
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 23:20, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

It is meant to be put at the top of the page with no additional text, as it appears invisable because the template has no content. Make sure you spelled it right too. The correct spelling is {{NoBots}}.
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 19:44, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Red Links

 Done
I have a question about red links (also know as dead links). Should red links be removed? I have seen that they should simply be turned blue, but I have also seen (at S:CONTRIB) that it is listed as a flaw and should be removed. What is the correct answer?
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 18:15, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

If it is about a title that could reasonably exist, then it should be "turned blue" as said above rather than simply removed (for example, "A Scratcher is someone who has created at least one project" would be better turned into "project" than "project". However, completely unreasonable article titles, such as this one, would likely be handled on a case by case basis.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 19:55, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Short period of read-only time tonight

Hi everyone,

At 9pm Scratch Time tonight (click the link to see it in your local timezone), we will be upgrading the English Wiki (i.e. this one) to MediaWiki 1.35.1. Unlike the last upgrade, this should be a pretty quick process that only takes a few minutes. The Wiki will be read-only during the time it takes since we do need to perform some database operations as part of the upgrade. I will post an update once that's done.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 22:08, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Right, I live in EST, and stay up until like 11pm (o_o lol) so I will witness it. Anyway, thanks for the heads up!
Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 00:27, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

We did encounter some small technical difficulties, but in the end it looks like we got everything working. Thank you for your patience! Please let me know if there are any issues.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 02:19, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

A suggestion for the Style Guide

Frequently, users link to April Fools articles from others with the prefix for them before it. This is unnecessary, as the joke article will still show up on April Fools Day without it, and the original article likely does not show if the user goes to the joke page with the April Fools prefix.

I think something recommending that users should link April Fools pages from others using the link to the normal page should be added to the Style Guide.

For example, [[Scratch Wiki:April Fools/X]] (with X being the name of the article with an April Fools page) should be changed to [[X]].
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 18:12, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't think this should be in the overall style guide, but I'll add it April Fools' main page, which serves as a de facto style guide for April Fools' pages.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 19:08, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

February Featured Images

Hello everyone! It's time to decide on featured images for February. If you have any suggestions, please leave them below.

What can I suggest?

You can suggest any image(s) on the English Scratch Wiki that have not been featured previously.

How do I tell if an image has already been featured?

It will have the {{featured}} template on it, shown as a star icon in the top right corner of the image page.

Is there a limit to the number of images I can suggest?

No. However, please don't suggest too many...
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 18:45, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

I suggest this image:
TenType (talk | contribs) 22:56, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

I suggest this one:
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 23:51, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Looks like i'll suggest this one
Geometric_ghast (talk | contribs) 01:23, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

hold up one of the images I suggested got featured I'm suggesting this and this. :P
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 01:34, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

This one,
Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 02:39, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

looks nice
Mlcreater (talk | contribs) 03:51, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Updated. Thanks everyone for the plethora of suggestions!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 02:29, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Thankful Thursday! December 31^th, 2020

Hello all, It's been a doozy of a year for all of us. I hope everyone is staying during these times. As we approach the new year let us try to be a better person, be kinder to each other, and let us remember to Scratch On!

Welcome to the 34^th Thankful Thursday! December 31^th, 2020.

What is Thankful Thursday?

Thankful Thursday is a way of showing appreciation to other Wikians. Feel free to congratulate someone for finishing a large page, or even just give minor thanks for a minor edit. Just remember to keep everything positive!

How to Thank

We have a whole wiki page on it! You can find it here: Thankful Thursday

Thanks

The Thanks are *drum roll please*

User	Thanks
EXAMPLE (talk | contribs)	Thank you for Unix time! Example (talk | contribs) 00:00, 1 January 1970 (UTC)
TenType (talk | contribs)	Thanks for making so many helpful edits, and participating in so many discussions. You help shape the wiki to what is now. Thank you. leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 16:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
4096bits (talk | contribs)	Thank you for all of your helpful edits recently, and thank you for welcoming new users! Your edits are greatly appreciated! leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 16:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
bigpuppy (talk | contribs)	Thank you so much for all of your edits! Whether it is fixing a little spelling mistake, or participating in a group discussion, I always see you in recent changes! Thank you for being such a kind person too. leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 16:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
jvvg (talk | contribs)	Wow, you have done so much for this wiki, I don't even know where to start. Thank you for accepting users, your awesome ideas, and just making the wiki as great as it can be. You have been here for so long, and have been really helpful. leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 16:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC) Thank you so much for maintaning the Scratch Wiki background systems, without you, the software would just crash, and the Wiki, um, becomes a broken website. Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 18:10, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Jackson49 (talk | contribs)	Thank you for contributing so much to the Removed Pac-Man project talk page, you have been very helpful there. leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 16:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
ScratchCatHELLO (talk | contribs)	Thanks so much for helping us split Scratch Trends! Lovecodeabc Links: talk page | scratch profile | contributions 13:25, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
Mlcreater (talk | contribs)	Thank you for your helpful edits and thank you for participating in so many discussions! leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 14:14, 19 December 2020 (UTC) Thanks for all of your edits! You have improved countless articles. Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 18:24, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
Super Scratch Bros20 (talk | contribs)	Thank you for all of your helpful edts and thanks for bringing attention to so many articles! In addition to that, thanks for all of your ideas in the forum community portal! Your edits are greatly appreciated leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 14:14, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
leahcimto (talk | contribs)	Thanks for all of your edits, and for being so helpful in discussions Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 18:24, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
lovecodeabc (talk | contribs)	Thank you for all of the improvements you've made to articles, and thanks for being helpful on talk pages Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 18:24, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
Pavcato (talk | contribs)	Thank you for all of your help with the Scratch Trends descriptions Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 16:37, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

“

There are many more people on this wiki who deserve these comments just as much as those who received them. :) Everyone is special and brings their own ideas. The more of us there are, the better the community spirit. Sadly, I must sign off now- Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 01:06, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

”

The next TT is, January 28{th}}, 2021 see you then!
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 14:31, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

 Done
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 14:31, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Any way to see the newest wikians?

 Done So, I recently made a welcoming message, and I'm having trouble finding new users to use it on. Is there a way to see the newest wikians anywhere?
Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 22:37, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes! The User Creation Log comes in handy for welcoming new users. You can also stalk Recent Changes (like many other users do).
TenType (talk | contribs) 22:51, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Ah, thanks!
Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 02:56, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

We have almost 280,000 edits!

Live count: 341,095
Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 20:49, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Would an article about uploads.scratch.mit.edu be ok?

So, uploads.scratch.mit.edu is a pretty cool website, as it stores PFP's, project and studio thumbnails, and other images on the website. However, it can also serve as an alternate server for Scratch which has full interactivity with the main Scratch website (try uploads.scratch.mit.edu/discuss) (meaning that you can use it to access scratch if the main Scratch is down!)

So, would an article about this be needed/cool to have?
Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 22:19, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I think that would be an intresting article, and would be ok to create.
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 01:22, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea
Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 15:00, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Maybe it could go in an article about subdomains of Scratch?
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 15:02, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

uploads can do a lot more than the other subdomains, and is also a bit more notable, so i think it should have its own article
Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 22:41, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I think it should have its own article too
Mlcreater (talk | contribs) 23:47, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

I think it should have its own article because it serves as an alternate server of scratch and stores all the images.
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 23:59, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Disclaimers Page

 Not done
In the English Scratch Wiki's footer, there is a disclaimers link at the bottom of the page under the legal category. It goes to this page in German. Is this intentional, and is there a english version of the page that should be put there instead?
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 01:00, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

It is in German, not Dutch, and the document is German because the Wiki's servers are in Germany. Also, there cannot be an English version because it is legally dangerous to translate legal documents.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 08:18, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

If there is an English translation, the Wiki could be legally protected by a clause similar to §14 of the Scratch Terms of Use, like this:

If the Scratch Wiki provides you with a translation of the German language version of these Disclaimers, or any other policy, then you agree that the translation is provided for informational purposes only and does not modify the German language version. In the event of a conflict between a translation and the German version, the German version will govern.

Mlcreater (talk | contribs) 13:31, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes, that about summarizes the situation. The original text in German is legally binding, while text in English would be informational only irrespective of any translation errors/miscommunications. While we can provide a page in English with a disclaimer that the German is the authoritative version, that would require we have someone translate it, and so far nobody has invested the necessary time.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 15:42, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

“	google translate	”
– somebody

Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 15:47, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Google Translate is more inaccurate than manual translation.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 16:53, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Why is there no page about text engine?

Why is there no page about the text engine? I am still new to scratch wiki. I don't know what do we focus on here yet.

 Jenniferandjim (talk | contribs) 01:58, 9 January 2021 (UTC)jenniferandjim

Welcome to the Scratch Wiki! There is an article about text engines here.
Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 19:35, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

A template marking Raspberry Pi features are only available on the Raspberry Pi

I think a template described in the header could be made and be placed on pages. Here is a mockup:

This feature is only available on the Raspberry Pi version of Scratch 3.0 offline. No other version has it.

Although it might fall under fair use, the image in my mockup could be replaced with the Raspberry Pi logo.

The template can make it clearer that the main version of Scratch does not contain such feature, and could prevent confusion that it does not exist outside the Raspberry Pi.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 08:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

The image is licensed under Creative Commons, granting us license to use it provided we attribute the original source (fair use is not relevant here). As for whether or not to use the template, I'm personally fine with it but let's see what some other people think too.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 16:37, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

 Support, I think it's fine and important since the code for Raspberry Pi's Scratch is closed source as far as I know.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  20:20, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

What would happen if a username on this wiki was found out to be a full name (or breaks the Community Guidelines in general)?

Question is in the title. Would all evidence of the username be deleted (renaming users is not possible yet as far as I know)?
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 16:03, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi Jammum. Well, to start, I would just like to say I'm not completely sure, but I assume if their name broke the community guidelines the account would get banned/deleted if there was no way to change it. Also, if it was their real name, the consequences would probably be different than if it was a name that broke the community guidelines in other ways. However, once again, I'm not certain.
J_Coder26 (talk | contribs) 21:10, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

I would assume so, as I believe the Scratch Wiki enforces the same policies of personal information in usernames as Scratch does.
Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 01:49, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm guessing that the acount would be blocked, and on all their edits the username would be hidden.
leahcimto talk • contribs • profile 12:19, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Remember that we have a closed account system, so it's very unlikely such a username would be allowed in the first place, as we would not accept any account requests from them. Also, they would need to have a Scratch account that is over two months old, which would also mean slipping by the Scratch Team for two months. It is possible to rename users, though as a matter of policy we don't do that since it may have unintended consequences, but if all of the above fail and we find a user with an inappropriate username, we would rename them (probably to a random string of characters) and block them.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 19:31, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

It might also be worthwhile to note that users can actually contact the ST and ask them to change their name if they have a good reason for it. For instance, they might not know their username broke the community guidelines or accidentally used their real name and they could contact the ST to change their name instead of getting their account banned.
J_Coder26 (talk | contribs) 18:43, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Only for noting, it's impossible to change your name or undelete your account on Scratch automatically, including the Scratch Team. (not Scratch Wiki, it's possible to change an username on wikis but it's disallowed except some cases as jvvg pointed out.) In that case, someone should request the deletion of old user account on Scratch (including the deletion of user informations from APIs), and back up their projects etc; and then, should get a new username and transfer studios and projects.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  19:32, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Thankful Thursday! January 28^th, 2021

Welcome to the 35^th Thankful Thursday! January 28^th, 2021.

What is Thankful Thursday?

Thankful Thursday is a way of showing appreciation to other Wikians. Feel free to congratulate someone for finishing a large page, or even just give minor thanks for a minor edit. Just remember to keep everything positive!

How to Thank

We have a whole wiki page on it! You can find it here: Thankful Thursday

Thanks

The Thanks are *drum roll please*

User	Thanks
Bigpuppy (talk | contribs)	Thanks for your countless helpful edits! Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 15:18, 4 January 2021 (UTC) Thanks for everything you have done for Scratch Wiki! Neha41 (talk | contribs) 17:22, 11 January 2021 (UTC) Thank you for helping me out, particularly with creating a header a few months ago. J_Coder26 (talk | contribs) 14:54, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
4096bits (talk | contribs)	Thanks for all your helpful contributions to the Scratch Wiki! Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 20:05, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Leahcimto (talk | contribs)	Thanks for being so helpful in welcoming new users! Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 01:51, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
MartinWollenweber (talk | contribs)	Thanks for hosting us Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 14:37, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Maulerforminers53 (talk | contribs)	Thank you for starting the Non Euclidean Game Tutorial Mlcreater (talk | contribs) 00:24, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

“

There are many more people on this wiki who deserve these comments just as much as those who received them. :) Everyone is special and brings their own ideas. The more of us there are, the better the community spirit. Sadly, I must sign off now- Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 01:06, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

”

The next TT is, February 25^th, 2021 see you then!
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 21:13, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

 Done
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 21:13, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Why did the Featured Article Paint Editor become not protected?

It is still the featured article, but its "View source for Paint Editor" page recently changed back to "Editing Paint Editor".
Mlcreater (talk | contribs) 21:46, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

The protection was set to last for one month until the next Wiki Wednesday (when we would choose a new featured article). However, for various reasons we didn't have a Wiki Wednesday and new featured article this month. I am protecting it for an additional month until the next Wiki Wednesday, and we're going to make sure to actually have it.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 00:32, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

LEGO BOOST Extension

There should be a Template:LEGO BOOST Blocks in Category:Block Category Templates to go at the bottom of the extension's blocks' articles, like there are Template:Sensing Blocks and Template:Micro:bit Blocks for those categories.
Mlcreater (talk | contribs) 00:18, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Feel free to add it. As far as I'm aware there is no reason it doesn't exist other than nobody has created it.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 01:18, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Help with Pages I can Make

So, I was confused about the instructions when it said that I can only make stuff like arrow key tutorials, not tutorials for specific games. I have seen several game tutorials on the wiki, and I was wondering if that is allowed. I was also wondering whether I can make a page telling you about a certain type of project, like a noteblock or parallax?
Zebrastripesagain (talk | contribs) 20:16, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that's fine, as long as it's not about a specific project, especially one that you made. That would be advertising, which is not allowed on the wiki. But you can make a tutorial on how to code a common project.
Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 19:54, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Question about Custom Signature

So, I hate my wiki username. I made it over two years ago when I was stupid. I hate it. So, would I be allowed to change my custom signature so that it has my current profile picture and my username as Ihatr (my current Scratch Account)?
Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 03:27, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I have no idea. It is possible, seeing as you can change your signature but I do not know if you would be allowed. Could someone with high authority on the wiki confirm if this is allowed or not?
Filmlover12 Talk Contribs Scratch 21:14, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Offtopic, but I obviously want someone to answer my question instead of just wondering the same thing as me
Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 22:58, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorry! I just thought this topic would get more attention if more than one person thought the same thing.
Filmlover12 Talk Contribs Scratch 10:08, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

I recommend that you keep your wiki username in your sig, but I think you can mention your current Scratch username. One way you could do it is by putting your current username first, then your wiki username in brackets, or vice versa (I have seen that being done before).

For your profile picture, I think you can replace your old account's profile picture with your current one (several users' custom signatures might have different icons in them than their corresponding Scratch accounts).
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 11:01, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

The policy is that you cannot change usernames on the Wiki. We haven't so far said how that applies to signatures, so for now I would say you need to at least include your "old" username in your signature, though you can also include your new one (for example, have it say "Ihatr (Geometric Ghast)" or similar).
jvvg (talk | contribs) 18:33, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

I went ahead and changed it, hopefully it's fine.
Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 04:09, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

How do I create a custom signature?

 Fixed

I really would like a custom signature so I have looked at the page for creating one but I am very confused on what I need to do to get the image and formatting looking like my preferences. Can I have some help and instructions so I can create a custom sig that will not break the rules?
Filmlover12 (talk | contribs) 14:51, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

I'd reccommend looking at other's signatures to see if there's something you've missed. For the picture, just upload it through the upload file page.
Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 17:35, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Ok I'll try that out. Thanks for the tips!
File:Filmlover12 Icon.png Filmlover12 Talk Contribs Scratch
18:45, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

It all works good but the time stamp seems to be on another line and I can't shorten the signature any more without taking out a bit that is important. Is there anything I can do to resolve this problem? Thanks.
File:Filmlover12 Icon.png Filmlover12 Talk Contribs Scratch
18:45, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

New page on Famous Scratchers

 Done

Would it be possible to create a page about famous scratchers that has a list of the most followed/popular scratchers? I am aware of S:NPP but I think it would be notable enough to have that sort of page. I am not sure though, so could someone say if I would be allowed to create it? Thanks.
Filmlover12 Talk Contribs Scratch 10:32, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Such a page would not be allowed per S:NOSP. Simply being popular is not sufficient reason for being listed on the Wiki, and that also runs the risk of turning being listed on the Wiki into a status symbol.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 18:34, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Jvvg, I partially agree with you, but an argument could be made that users such as griffpatch are notable enough to Scratch to deserve their own page
Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 08:09, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Does anyone else have any thoughts?
Filmlover12 Talk Contribs Scratch 08:46, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ We have literally had an entire discussion whose basis was Jackson's argument. The conclusion was no. Individual users will never be documented on the Scratch Wiki. I'm marking this done as  Rejected.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  09:25, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Subpages

 Done
Is there an easy way to view a user's subpages?
Dogsmakemehappy (talk | contribs) 22:28, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

From the users' root userpage, go to "Page information" (under "Tools" on the left), and then click "Number of subpages of this page".
jvvg (talk | contribs) 22:49, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks
Dogsmakemehappy (talk | contribs) 22:53, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Requesting user page to be deleted

 Done
Are you able to request your user page (this) to be deleted?
4096bits | Talk | 837 Contribs 22:43, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

I believe so as it's possible for it to not exist, although I'm not sure. Goodbye 4096bits.
Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 01:18, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Probably. Goodbye 4096bits.
Lovecodeabc Links: talk (new topic) | contribs (815) | directory 02:25, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

I've seen it done before. I'm sorry to see that you're leaving. Thank you for all of your contributions to the wiki. Goodbye, 4096bits.
Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 03:51, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Well, it wouldn't hurt not to try...
4096bits (talk | contribs) 13:21, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, I was discussing this with the rest of the EW+. The answer to the question is we will delete userpages upon request but will not delete user talk pages.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 18:19, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks jvvg! Looks like this conversation is  Done.
4096bits (talk | contribs) 19:09, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Not saving!

Sometimes when I open up a project it just wont save for some reason. Do any of you know what I can do to fix it and some of the possible causes?
Lovepeacekindness (talk | contribs) 18:25, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't believe the Scratch Wiki is the place to discuss project issues, try the Scratch Forums (if I'm interpreting you correctly)
Ihatr (geometric_ghast) • Talk Page • 331 Contributions 18:27, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, please keep discussion on the Community Portal related to the happenings of the Wiki itself (and likewise on article talk pages, please keep them related to the article and not just a discussion about the subject of the article). The Bugs and Glitches forum may be able to help you out though.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 20:42, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Archive the Community Portal?

There's a lot of topics
Jackson49 (talk | contribs) 17:53, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

custom signatures

 Not done

Recently I've noticed many custom signatures break one specific rule:
The signature may not contain any background colors, images, or borders
Specifically, background colors and borders cannot be added to custom signatures. It is important to read that page fully before creating a custom signature. Please change it to satisfy that rule. Thank you!
KrIsMa user | talk | contribs | edits 16:56, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

another suggestion: we could also propose to scrap that rule so if you're up for it you may start a discussion.

KrIsMa user | talk | contribs | edits 16:59, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

See dedicated subpage

What should we call the Scratch 3.0 player?

There are some player articles like Flash Player, Java Player, HTML5 Player. So what should we call the 3.0 player? HTML5 Player is different from Scratch 3.0. My opinion:

1. Move HTML5 Player to HTML5 Player (2.0) and make it as HTML5 Player (3.0)
2. WebGL Player
3. Scratch 3.0 Player
4. JavaScript Player (added 01:56, 18 March 2018 (UTC))

Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 23:50, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

I thought the 3.0 Player used JavaScript?
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 01:47, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

HTML5 Player does too
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 01:56, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

"React Player" might work too - the 3.0 editor uses ReactJs
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  04:10, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 11:56, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

I would just call it The 3.0 player.
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 15:23, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

I'd call it the HTML5 PLayer, seeing as we've had the Java and Flash Players in the past.

Redglitter ~ (Talk Page ~ Contributions) ~ 07:31, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ "HTML5 Player" is a different thing, there was a previous attempt at making an HTML5 player that lost traction, so that wouldn't work.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  03:49, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Universal Player or Vector Player.
SpyGuy9 (talk | contribs) 00:16, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

I say name this HTML5 Player (3.0) and the previous one with (2.0). There would be either a disambiguation page or a see alsoon the top of the page.
NYCDOT [ Talk Page | Contributions | Directory ] 19:46, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

3.0 updating question

 Not done

Should we rename the page Getting Started with Scratch to Getting Started with Scratch 2.0 and create a new page called Getting Started with Scratch 3.0? Because some people (Mainly teachers who's curriculum is based around S2) will still use the offline 2.0 editor.
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 22:41, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

A copy of the page before I began updating it can be found here.
Daring Sailor [ Talk | Contribs | More... ] 22:44, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Our school hasn't updated to 3.0. I bet they don't even know what 3.0 is... I think that should be right. We should make two separate articles or two categories.
God286 (talk | contribs) 19:46, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

I think you should could make two separate articles. There could be schools and people who don't know about 3.0.
998930 (talk | contribs) 01:53, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

“Secret” Compliments

We all know Compliment Tuesday. To suggest compliments we have the S:CT page. It’s a great way to compliment people, but could be even better.

Right now you suggest a compliment, everyone who wants to including the person who was complimented can see it and get posted on CP.

So I thought that’s good but you do let look forward to the CP post because you know if you have been complimented.

I propose proposing compliments on a way no-one else can see apart from the organizer(s). This can be achieved by a Google Form.

Proposed new method:

• Users suggest compliments on Google Form entering all details as they would before

• End of the month (organizer)s have admin access to the form and gather responses

• Posted in CP

This way:

• Users will look forward to see compliments received and not seeing anytime of the month

• People will be more encouraged by the compliments

Ideas?
asqwde talk | contribs 07:28, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

There are pros and cons to this... on one hand, people will be less self-conscious about complimenting if nobody knows it's them, but on the other hand some compliments either don't make sense if you don't know who it is or imply on their own who the person complimenting is. I do like the idea of looking forward to compliments rather than seeing them immediately, but the con to that is people might be disappointed if CT doesn't come out at the end of the month due to not enough people complimenting...
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  07:39, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm on board with this. I still would like to keep the non-secret compliments as a second option if we go about this. The main problem would be moderation. With anonymity, there is more of a chance that something mean would come out of it. An unwritten policy of CT is, if I see a disrespectful "compliment" it won't be included. If we were to use a google forum, we would have to have some way of knowing who compliment who, we can't just ask for a username since we can't verify it wasn't an impostor. Any ideas how to go about this?
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 11:48, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps (again) an extension? Special:ComplimentTuesday sounds like an interesting idea...
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  11:50, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Guess who forked your report extension ;) (or possibly Special:ThankfulThursday :P)
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 12:18, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

+1 for a Special: page where compliments can be submitted and a way of suggesting public compliments
asqwde talk | contribs 16:23, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ But also,Scratch and Scratch Wiki are growing up with "Imagine, Program, Share".Here's an rejected example suggestion:

“	Private Messaging When communication is public, people are more likely to be respectful because they know that everyone can see it. However, when posting PMs, people know that only the intended recipient can see it, so do not think as much before posting. Even if a "Flag PM" function is implemented, the Scratch Team currently does not have the resources to moderate it, because of the reason said before there would be a lot of inappropriate/disrespectful messages.	”
– Scratch Team

Also,we can see other's compliments(Google Forms give this in finish of the form,right?).

Shortly:

• It's a bad idea because...

• It means a lot of disrespectful or other bad messages

• I have some questions about Google Forms security

• Also, we'll need a lot code(if we'll use the Wiki for this)

• And,we and Scratch Team have some notes about private messaging

• If we'll try to check all of messages,it'll mean more time and more work

• Anonymous and fake users have a big problem(in Google Forms)

Ahmetlii (talk | contribs) 20:59, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

I would generally discourage the use of google forms for this kind of project given that you are seeking input from the entire community.
Makethebrainhappy (talk | contribs) 00:33, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

I also disagree with using Google Forms because fake or anonymous users could abuse the feature. However, maybe Special:ComplimentTuesday could be the way to go...
TenType (talk | contribs) 02:53, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Google Forms are out by multiple Community and Wiki G/guidelines. A special page is the way to go. @Ahmetlii: If we're using a special page, problems solved include:

• It means a lot of disrespectful or other bad messages

Compliments would be reviewed before being shown. Inappropriate messages are vandalism and would be treated as such.  Solved

• I have some questions about Google Forms security

No Google Forms.  Solved

• Also, we'll need a lot code(if we'll use the Wiki for this)

Not a problem for me, it'll be fun!  Solved

• And,we and Scratch Team have some notes about private messaging

Compliments are shown to everyone - only who submitted the compliment is hidden. Not private messaging.  Solved

• If we'll try to check all of messages,it'll mean more time and more work

Not very much more, and @jakel181 has been doing a great job on CT so far, I'm sure he wouldn't mind looking through the compliments before he posts them.

• Anonymous and fake users have a big problem(in Google Forms)

Not with a special page!  Solved

I think a special page is definitely the way to go. I believe the following are the only questions to really consider:

• Do we actually want compliments to be hidden from everyone (except the organizer and the submitter) until they are posted?
  • If so, who do we want to review the compliments so that nothing is inappropriate?
• Do we actually want to allow anonymous compliments? (Note: This and the previous question are two separate questions - the answer to one does not imply any answer to the other.)
  • If we do want to allow anonymous compliments, we will have to still also allow onymous compliments - people can just include their names in their compliments.

This concludes my post.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  08:33, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

I think we should allow EW/Admins/Bureaucrats see in some fashion. (Maybe not all but a couple)
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  12:54, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

• Do we actually want compliments to be hidden from everyone (except the organizer and the submitter) until they are posted? -Yes, they are. (I don't need it :P)
  • If so, who do we want to review the compliments so that nothing is inappropriate? -It's named as "be shy" :)
• Do we actually want to allow anonymous compliments? (Note: This and the previous question are two separate questions - the answer to one does not imply any answer to the other.)

-No, we don't because S:JOIN-if somebody want to send a message, they must join and login to the Wiki.

• • If we do want to allow anonymous compliments, we will have to still also allow onymous compliments - people can just include their names in their compliments.

-They can use Scratch profiles to send a message - it's only a Wiki about Scratch.
Ahmetlii (talk | contribs) 17:03, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

 No clear resolution
NYCDOT [ Talk Page | Contributions | Directory ] 22:35, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Probably this wiki won't need "secret" compliments anymore.
Ahmetlii (talk | contribs) 19:55, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

List of deleted pages

 Done

(Brought up here after discussion here.)

So, there are currently four lists of deleted pages on this wiki:

• Mathfreak231's, which is the most comprehensive but is no longer updated in his absence
• Mine, which is a duplicate of Mathfreak's but hopefully more organized
• Jammum's Deleted Pages, which are more recent than either of the above
• Jammum's All Deleted Pages, which seems to be more recent and extensive but has the least information (it's only a list of titles)

I suggest (from jakel181's idea) that these become a single page in projectspace, something like "Scratch Wiki:Deleted Pages". This could be a Scratch Wiki Project.

Advantages

• More organized
• One place for all
• Can be updated by anyone

Disadvantages

None I can think of off the top of my head

Thoughts? Shall we do it?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  11:15, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I think we should! I like the style yours is in, snice it is more oragized, and a bit easier to find pages, so we should base the page off that.
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 11:45, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

+1 :)
NYCDOT [ Talk Page | Contributions | Directory ] 13:06, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Just to remind everyone, I have not finished my "All Deleted Pages" page at the time of posting this message. It will be contributed to frequently.
Jammum (talk | contribs) 14:55, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

To Kenny2Scratch: This will be a great idea, as it will make it more accessible to people. If this get made, maybe put it could be put in the "Navigation" box on the side?
Yaov_1991 (talk | contribs) 21:37, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I think the page will not be notable enough to go there.
Jammum (talk | contribs) 07:02, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't think it goes in the sidebar, it's not that important; however, come to think of it, this is a nice candidate for a Scratch Wiki Project. Thinkest you that this is a suitable mission to embark upon?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  14:24, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘I say aye.
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 01:27, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@Kenny2scratch, let's do that!
NYCDOT [ Talk Page | Contributions | Directory ] 20:01, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Are we going to do this?
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 11:11, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I just created a page called User:TenType/Deleted Files, was scrolling through the Community Portal, and found this discussion.
Maybe this page could contain pages only and not files? (I really spent a lot of time and effort onto my deleted files page) Anyways, still waiting for a response on whether or not this project will be started.
TenType (talk | contribs) 05:53, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Why not? It sounds like a great idea; let's get started. How do you guys find deleted pages anyway (just wondering)?
Groko13 (talk | contribs) 15:00, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Why hasn't this happened yet? :P

 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  16:15, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

I don't know, VFDan. It's a good idea, and I would love to see this on the wiki.
Ew10528 (talk | contribs) 11:55, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Should I delete this page (https://en.scratch-wiki.info/wiki/User:Jammum/Deleted_Pages)?
Dude613 (talk | contribs) 19:42, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Firstly, that page is in my user space, and that can only be deleted if I wanted it. Secondly, only Experienced Wikians and above can delete articles. Thirdly, you used the wrong link syntax to link that page.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 06:15, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

I now think the list of deleted pages in Scratch Wiki space might not be necessary.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 09:19, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

I personally think it's a good idea and it will make it a lot more organised so yeah.
Filmlover12 (talk | contribs) 17:30, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

I have already replied to this saying this such list would not be necessary, but I think such list might have no proper use at all.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 13:59, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Can this discussion be finished? Although no other users have no supported this, my point in this discussion about such page not being useful might conclude this discussion if possible.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 15:38, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Tinkercad Codeblocks

Tinkercad has a new feature called Codeblocks that looks similar to Scratch. It has hat blocks and variables. I think this could have a page on this wiki.
LiamSapp123 (talk | contribs) 19:47, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Does it have a specific connection to Scratch in particular though? We don't have a page on Blockly, even though it's a similar concept (and even though 3.0 has Blockly code in it).
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  04:35, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Maybe we should have one about Blockly
Congyingzhou (talk | contribs) 13:31, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

I agree that we should make one on Blockly.
Ravenclaw900 (talk | contribs) 01:56, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

 Further discussion needed
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  11:11, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

There is already a page on Blockly and since it is involved with how Scratch works, I think the page can be kept. As for Tinkercad Codeblocks, it is not completely related to Scratch other than the fact that it resembles it. I think it could be listed in Alternatives to Scratch, due to its similarity to Scratch.

Also, Scratch modification pages are no longer allowed to be created, and Tinkercad Codeblocks might be of a similar level (even though it is not a Scratch modification). Other pages about Scratch-like programming languages that are not modified from it do not have articles as far as I know.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 17:52, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

When are we planning to implement the new Flawed Article?

 Not done

Per title.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 01:13, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Maybe you should ask jvvg. Has there been a discussion about it elsewhere? I'm not sure if the article is finished yet.
Groko13 (talk | contribs) 03:07, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

I think it is done you should ask jvvg he made it
Godslamb (talk | contribs) 14:49, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

It seems that the new flawed article has been replaced with something else-- has it been cancelled?
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 22:17, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Scratchblocks Plugin not Working

On any wiki page I go to that has the Scratchblock Plugin, all of the blocks end up half-rendered, except for the text. Are other people seeing this?

Ravenclaw900 (talk | contribs) 13:30, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

This does not happen to me - the bug might only happen to the device or computer you are using the Scratch Wiki on.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 14:18, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

This might not be of much help but have you tried realoding the page or freeing space on your computer/device sometimes when the tablet I use is out of space/storage everything malnfuctions
Godslamb (talk | contribs) 15:09, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

What device/OS/browser are you using?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 15:37, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

If you are using a phone it is probably because the screen is too small so the wiki malfunctions. If you are on another device then I think it is because your storage is full, so in that case you need to free up space.
Filmlover12 (talk | contribs) 17:28, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm using Brave Browser on a Macbook Pro, with about 70GB left on the hard drive. I have tried both reloading and clearing the cache, to no avail.
Ravenclaw900 (talk | contribs) 22:15, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Hmm, could you try using a different browser, like Firefox or Chrome? That might be the issue.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 23:00, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Require custom welcome messages to be transcluded

When custom welcome messages on new Scratch Wikians' talk pages are not transcluded from a templat (when the entire contents, including the formatting is copied and pasted onto the talk page), it could lengthen the talk page.

I suggest that there should be a rule (unless one already exists) requiring all custom welcome messages (this excludes the default Scratch Wiki welcome message) to be transcluded as a template (from the creator's userspace, obviously).
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 16:04, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

#Standardized signatures Transcluded pages are loading slower, also the default welcome message is too big for transclusion.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  18:14, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

No, transcluding messages should be prohibited as this can result in edits years later or the meaning changed. I would say require them to be substituted. But really there's no need for more than one welcome message, so piling on 4-5 welcomes is not a good idea.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 22:17, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

A flaw in the "Random Page" button I see

 Not done

So, I've been using the Scratch Wiki for almost 3 months without an account, and about 1 with, and I see a flaw in the "Random Page" button. Sometimes it links you to disambiguation pages, and I'm just wondering- is this really useful? Because most people (I'm assuming) who use the RP (Random Page) button just want to find an article they can revise or look at, and I find that whenever a disambiguation page while clicking the RP button, I just click the RP button again, and find an article. I have a suggestion, maybe have an option to toggle if you want to not go to disambiguation pages while clicking the RP button? Just a little suggestion.
Foxlife37 (talk | contribs) 23:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

See wikipedia:mw:Help:Random page; I think that since Special:Random is a built-in MediaWiki thing, this would require some sort of extension. That said, I'm no MediaWiki guru, so I could be wrong about that. An easy solution would be to put disambig pages in their own namespace; though this has the downside that they won't show up in search. Again, I'm not a MediaWiki guru, so I don't know whether there's an easy solution to that downside.

I really wanted to make a joke about not being able to play TenType's Disambiguation Dodge, but then I realized you were just suggesting a way to toggle seeing disambiguation pages...
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 23:25, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Haha, I was going to make that joke too! I don't think we should move disambigs to their own namespace though; that seems like quite a drastic change just to make sure that they don't show up via the Random Page button.
Groko13 (talk | contribs) 23:31, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! I now have an idea that came from your answers. It's 100% not related to the problem, but it's definitely a cool idea! Oof so much happened. I had to re-write this because of an edit conflict, and I guess this is an example of an idea that came from a problem. And wow is this hard on a phone...
Foxlife37 (talk | contribs) 23:37, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Maybe we can add mw:Extension:Disambiguator (jawiki has it)
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 13:59, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

I personally enjoy finding disambigs in random page. I think they are useful resources to build up the wiki (on a particular subject perhaps, or a set of linked pages). I see no reason it should simply be removed or excluded, which furthur tampers with it being a random page from anywhere on the wiki. If you want a different page, you could always simply pres the random page button multiple times.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 22:17, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Linking Style Sheets

 Not done Could anyone please tell me if it is possible to link style sheets similar to

<link rel="stylesheet" href="filename.css">

in HTML? If it is then could you please tell me how?
R4356th (talk | contribs) 18:33, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

It's "perfectly" impossible for the Scratch Wiki. It will need FTP server access. You cannot do it if you're not a bureaucrat.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  19:08, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

But why would I need FTP server access if the linked style sheet is on the wiki?
R4356th (talk | contribs) 19:23, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Wiki pages cannot run HTML codes itself.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  20:40, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

While this is impossible. You can, however, use your common.css file in your userspace which will effect the style of the wiki skin.
ContourLines (talk | contribs)

@Ahmelii, you are wrong. I suggest you to test it by yourself. @ContourLines, I am not asking about changing the style for only me; I am asking about changing the style for the contents of that page for everyone.
R4356th (talk | contribs) 11:56, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ @R4356th, are you sure about that? I cannot run it in my CSS sheet, I will try again. Did you test it in the Wiki?
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  12:53, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

I believe @Kenny2scratch might know. They seem to of effected the style of all their userspace.
ContourLines [ Talk ~ Contributions ~ Directory ] 18:23, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

You can not run the wiki on just html and css files. It needs the files that run the server accsept of it too like the php files.
ajsya  Profile | Talk | Contribs  11:21, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Replying after a month, well, @Ajsya and @Ahmelii, you can have HTML on the wiki. See Help:HTML.
R4356th (talk | contribs) 17:09, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

But also, the wiki softwares don't use some tags. We're already using "<div>" tag, but the wiki software compiles it for HTML.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  09:07, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

But it does not mention the link tag in particular.
R4356th (talk | contribs) 03:14, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Custom Signatures

Would it be a violation of S:USERSPACE to replace the contents of another user's custom signature which has all its code and formatting on the page itself with a transclusion of the template it is from?
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 11:43, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Could you elaborate? I don't really understand, it is probably as I am new here.
ContourLines (talk | contribs) 15:11, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

I think it is, but I'm not entirely sure. Can you explain a bit more about it?
Filmlover12 (talk | contribs) 15:26, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Reviving this topic as this was moved to the Not Done page, but I replaced the contents of two user signatures with a use of the template they are from, and as far as I know, they have not been reverted. I think this discusion might now be finished, but I am unsure
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 06:53, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Misdirected Request error

 Moved to Scratch Wiki:Bugs
Sometimes, when I go to the Test Wikis and back on an iPad, I sometimes get a '412 Misdirected Request' error. However, this does not happen on a desktop computer.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 17:55, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

I guess it's happening because of MediaWiki version. Test Wiki is using old version when compared to English Wiki. Also, there can be another reason: Test Wiki has a backdoor for FTP transfer but it has low probability.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  16:12, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Also, it's '421' error, not '412'.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  20:26, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

I have this problem too, also on an iPad. I might have gotten it on my computer before, but I don't remember.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  11:17, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

It happened on my Windows desktop just today. I think the Wifi disconnected when the screen turned off, maybe something similar happened to the iPads?
Jettypumpkin07 (talk | contribs) 11:32, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Would it possible to prevent users from using external links to wiki pages in the AbuseFilter?

Question is in title. If this were to be implemented (if it even is possible), would it apply to all non-userspace or just mainspace?
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 10:50, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

It's possible but I would never do this because sometimes there's a legitimate use for external links. Possibly an AbuseFilter warning, rather than disallow?
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  09:09, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

I am asking about disallowing external links to other Scratch Wiki pages, not all external links.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 09:46, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

There is sometimes a legitimate use for external links to the Scratch Wiki, e.g.: [2]

Unless you're just talking about content pages. Still, though, there are probably some special cases where disallowing it would be inconvenient. A warning might be good, though.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 17:43, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

The fullurl template can be used for some of those links that cannot be linked normally, so does that solve the problem?
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 07:38, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

(Reviving this) I think if a user uses an external link to Scratch Wiki pages, the proper way to do a link to another Wiki page could be shown. The edit could either be warned or prevented.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 13:21, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Allowing borders in custom sigs

I think we should allow borders in custom signatures. S:CSIG states that there shouldn't be borders in custom sigs, but so many people already have it in their signatures (kenny2scratch, 12944qwerty, EIephant_Lover, Dominic305, ahmetlii, ContourLines, ajsya, etc.) As long as the border isn't needlessly large or flashy, I believe it's fine.
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  03:14, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

I don't recall whether the rule disallows all borders. In either case, though, this is a conflict of interest because I see you have borders in your signature too...

I agree, but then again I have borders already as well. I'd prefer if some people without borders contributed an opinion.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  09:11, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

I think it's fine as long as it's not too large or draws any extra attention to the signature. I'm not sure how large "too large" would be though.
Groko13 / talk / contribs 15:07, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree too; I think also as long as it doesn't break lines (like text shadows) it should be allowed. But I'm biased too because I use them :P
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  16:20, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

RfC about the usage of fixed with in ScratchWikiSkin2

Hello all. As you may have noticed, ScratchWikiSkin2 seems to used a fixed width (similar to Fandom's Oasis skin), as a holdover from previous skins designed to look similar to scratch.mit.edu -- however, I and several other users have noticed an increasing number of problems using fixed width. Fixed widths generally leave a large amount of the screen entirely unused, and show a small amount of the page content. It also introduces design problems that rely on fixed width and break for some users. The current, fixed width style, looks a bit like this. I am proposing to use free-styled width based on the screen resolution (a mockup something like [ https://i.imgur.com/UEd14yX.png this], ignore the blue line, that is accidental and will not be shown in the final version). This allows for a larger content space, as well as making the view more consistent across skins. Please let me know if you support or oppose this proposal.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 00:44, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Addendum: I would also appreciate if all could specify what skin they use when commenting? (The information is helpful, most are likely either using ScratchWikiSkin2 or Vector, but others like me primarily use Monobook).
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 01:12, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

I support. Fixed width looks terrible. (Reply to the addendum: I use SWS2)
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  01:08, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

(SWS2 user) Consistency across skins is completely irrelevant - consistency with the Scratch website is more important. We use fixed width to emulate the mainsite, which does the same. If you want free width, you can make a user CSS file for it.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  09:50, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

I personally am of the belief that consistency with the Scratch website is "completely irrelevant" -- this is a third party site with different needs and goals. This is where a lot of the design has been poured into as well, such as by changing the header to a different color. There does indeed appear to be support for increasing the width apart from Kenny2scratch's comment. However, custom CSS files are not relevant here as what is being discussed is not personal views (I use Monobook) but what would actually improve the skin, primarily to those logged out and browsing the wiki.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 17:50, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the above statement. I have an ebic gamer HD monitor, and SWS2 is tiny on my monitor. There are at least 500 pixels of free space. It almost looks like it was designed for a tablet (it fits perfectly on iPadOS). This is the reason why I use Vector because it takes up almost all of my monitor space. You technically could make a CSS script for it, but the majority of users here (not everyone) don't know any other programming languages and/or markup languages than Scratch.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 15:51, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

If you like Vector, use Vector. If you like SWS2 enough to keep using it but also want non-fixed width, then use user CSS. For those not logged in, fixed width is what they get, because that's what they'll be used to from the Scratch website. I don't consider fill width an improvement, only a matter of preference. Find me examples of people (who have no relation to you) actually asking for fill width SWS on, say, the forums, and then it'll be more worth considering.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  15:45, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

I support. While garnetluvcookie said it looks like it's designed for a tablet, personally I prefer setting zoom to 75% or 85% on most pages. However setting the zoom on the Wiki causes content to get squished and lots of tables (including on File: pages) to overflow into the empty space. And on my 1080p display, it looks like a site designed for computers from 2009.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  17:31, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

RfC about User:Gdpr000001, User talk:Gdpr000001 and S:B redirects

 Done As explained in the title, these are discussed on their related talk pages and User talk:Ahmetlii, but I'd like to an RfC for solving the question.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  06:27, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

The first two have already been discussed at Talk:Gdpr0000001#Removing_several_redirects_to_this_page to delete, neutral on where S:B is targetted.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 06:29, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

But also, the discussion about gdpr has a few users and only 2 active users(me and Naleksuh), this doesn't mean a consensus because it goes to a discussion between two users.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  06:34, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

(Revive) User:Gdpr000001 has recently been deleted. Would this topic be considered done?
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 18:35, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

I have also removed the user talk page.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 20:59, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ As part of this, I have also removed User:Kaj.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 18:21, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

GitHub interwiki links

There seem to be a lot of GitHub links (including references) to the Scratch Wiki. Although the URL is not very long, maybe LLK github links (and maybe other github links) could have an interwiki link made for them (such as gh-llk, not 'gh' due to the presence of non-LLK github links as well).
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 06:48, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

I don't think so. Github is an external link, even its links host Scratch repos. They may cause confusion. Plain links are a better solution.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  06:52, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

To make things less confusing, interwiki links to Scratch's GitHub content could have the github: prefix instead.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 08:23, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Megathread: MediaWiki Version Bump

TL;DR: We're upgrading to MediaWiki Version 1.35. Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2020

Why upgrade?

Currently we're using MediaWiki 1.28, which is unsupported. This caused some problems and MW 1.28 is also incompatible with some extensions. This is why we upgrade to MediaWiki 1.35, a LTS version soon to be stable.

Timeline

Time not set, but this is a big project which can take weeks.

Checklist

Extensions and Skins:

•  Compatible ScratchWikiSkin2
•  Compatible ScratchLogin (patch applied to fix warning)
•  Replaced ConfirmAccount (new version built)
•  Compatible Report (patch needs review)
•  Compatible ScratchSig
•  Replaced EditAccount (new version built)
•  Compatible ScratchBlocks4
•  Compatible RecentChangesWebhooks
•  Compatible VisualEditor (but sb blocks will be only seen as string)

Bots:

•  Compatible InterwikiBot
•  Compatible TemplatesFTW
•  Internal errors WikiMonitor (has problems about dependencies)

Misc:

•  Compatible Special:BlockList patch - new version created
•  Compatible Common.css
•  Incompatible Common.js (sigwarn is problematic)

Status: C - Compatible, I - Incompatible

• C: Cologne Blue (en)
• C: Modern (en)
• C: MonoBook (en)
• C: ScratchWikiSkin2 (en)
• C: Vector (en)
• C: CategoryTree (en)
• C: CheckUser (en)
• I: ConfirmAccount (en)
• I: EditAccount (en)
• C: Interwiki (en)
• C: Random In Category (en)
• C: Report (en)
• C: ScratchLogin (en)
• C: CharInsert (en)
• C: Cite (en)
• C: CodeMirror (en)
• C: InputBox (en)
• C: ParserFunctions (en)
• C: RandomSelection (en)
• C: mw-ScratchBlocks4 (en)
• C: SyntaxHighlight (en)
• C: NativeSvgHandler (en)
• C: AbuseFilter (en)
• C: RecentChangesWebhooks (en)
• C: WikiEditor (en)
• C: DismissableSiteNotice (en)
• C: EventLogging (en)
• C: Google Analytics Integration (en)
• C: GuidedTour (en)
• C: DynamicPageList3 (de)
• C: EmbedScratch (de)
• C: EmbedPhosphorus (de)
• C: EmbedVideo (de)
• C: Labeled Section Transclusion (de)
• C: Lockdown (de)
• C: Admin Links (ja)
• I: Contribution Scores (ja)
• C: MassMessage (ja)
• C: Newest Pages (ja)
• I: ImagePagePrintLink (ja)
• C: ImageMap (ja)
• C: OpenGraphMeta (ja)
• C: YouTube (ja)
• C: RelatedArticles (ja)
• C: AutoSitemap (ja)
• C: BetaFeatures (ja)
• C: Description2 (ja)
• C: Disambiguator (ja)
• C: GuguruSearch (ja)
• C: InterwikiSorting (ja)
• C: RevisionSlider (ja)
• I: SearchStats (ja)
• C: TextExtracts (ja)
• C: Loops (fr)
• C: WikiSEO (fr)
• I: HeadScript (fr)
• C: HitCounters (test)

Discussion

This is gonna be big.
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 08:24, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Question: Is Vector going to be compatible with it? I sometimes use SWS2 but I mostly use Vector on my laptop.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 13:43, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

@garnetluvcookie: Definitely because MediaWiki uses Vector as default.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  13:45, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks!

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 13:55, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

While we are doing this, can we add the VisualEditor? I have used it at snapwiki.miraheze.org, and it works great! I'm so excited for this update!
GrahamSH (talk | contribs) 22:27, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

We are planning on adding the Visual Editor, however a bit of adaptation is necessary.
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  01:03, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Why is the VisualEditor incompatible with ScratchWikiSkin2? As far as I know, (and I've been exploring this) the skin has all of the necessary hooks. Has anyone tried it?
GrahamSH (talk | contribs) 16:21, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@GrahamSH: I tried and tested. I know it has all necessary hooks, but also it cannot simulate the editing visually(because our skin is restrictive). We (as all developers in the Wikis) are looking for compatibility.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  16:25, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Update: VisualEditor is working currently with a few unimportant things like sb is not seen as block.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  18:14, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘(Remember to outdent at 6) What changes are there between 1.28 and 1.35? I know there's visual editor but I'm not sure what else.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  00:26, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

If Scratchblocks are to be added to the VisualEditor here, how will they be inputted?
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 07:02, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

@Jammum: We're working on it for editing blocks visually. Probably we will use text, but also the blocks will be seen instantly on VisualEditor when someone did an edit on the Scratchblocks text.

@Dominic305: There are a lot changes, I suggest you to read all changelogs between 1.28 and 1.35.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  07:20, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Will the extension Popups be enabled instead of the current thing in the common.js? Popups, (the extension) is much better.
GrahamSH (talk | contribs) 12:13, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Also, since Special:BlockList patch is broken, you could try using https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Lockdown
GrahamSH (talk | contribs) 14:01, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the helping, but the developers is thinking that manually editing MediaWiki is better than use an extension for it. Anyway, thanks again!
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  14:24, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

I am not sure where Ahmetlii got the idea above-- nobody has even suggested that, in addition to it being a bad idea for a number of technical reasons that I am sure ISW understands. There have not been any suggestions for a way of implementing Special:BlockList privacy, but I will see about some solutions.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 18:19, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ For VisualEditor, couldn't you do something similar to the way it's done in scratch forums?
I wish I could help but I don't know a single thing about PHP
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  18:26, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

I don't think so. BBS systems and wikis are two different things. btw, I'm not also good at PHP (my specialty is Python on backend)
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  18:42, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

They are, but I wasn't saying that you use the systems. I was just saying to use the concepts of how the scratchblocks are entered into the visual space.

SAME, but I actually don't know a single thing of PHP
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  19:03, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Actually, it could look for typeof="mw:Extension/scratchblocks"
GrahamSH (talk | contribs) 19:48, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

What do you mean by the tags are found? We use <scratchblocks> tags to make scratchblocks on the wiki...

In the visualeditor, we could just make a button, that will make something similar to the templates popup in the visualeditor. Then edit and it makes the block!

Edit conflict lol, but I wouldn't recommend deleting your entire post and replacing it with something else. It doesn't tell others what your previous thoughts were, (they could support you, or not) And is that typof= supposed to link anywhere?
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  20:01, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

In the visualeditor, elements with scratchblock have typeof="mw:Extension/scratchblocks" in their html. But, there is no text (shown) that says <scratchblocks>
GrahamSH (talk | contribs) 01:05, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

That's because <scratchblocks> get's replaced with <pre class="block"> or <code class="block"> to make scratch blocks...

I'm sorry but I don't understand your point.
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  18:36, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I looked at the MediaWiki website and it said that the EditAccount extension is archived, which might be why it does not work on the latest MediaWiki version. Is it going to be forked or replaced?
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 10:10, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

We're working on it. The only thing is we will not use EditUser (because it's so restrictive). Please check the GitHub repos of the International Scratch Wiki for public changelogs of the Scratch Wiki systems.
 ahmetlii  Talk  Contributions  Directory  11:17, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

apple502j has created an alternative to EditAccount that can be used on MediaWiki 1.35: PassEdit. The original reason we needed EditAccount was for the case when users forgot their passwords and emails were set incorrectly (or they entered their email incorrectly when requesting an account and couldn't get their password sent to them when their account was created). However, now that we have ScratchLogin, that is no longer an issue, since users can reset their password by using their Scratch account. We have tested the extension and it does work, but we are not sure if we will enable it or not.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 23:09, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Increase the file size thingy (read this to get it)

 Done
i can't explain anything so here goes... I've seen many people getting the "compress every file you upload if it's not under 2 KB" message. Why? These users uploaded files that are like 6 KB. 6 KB!!! That's incredibly small, at least for file sizes. I believe that the minimum file size for compression should be raised to 20 KB because that's a size that's small, but large enough that it's too big. Thoughts?
♥ garnetluvcookie ♥ | ♥ talk ♥ | ♥ contribs ♥ 00:56, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

I think the title of this topic should actually be "Increase the file size thingy (read this to get it)" (or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?)

Tone down the rejected messages on S:BR archives

Note:

None of this was made to offend the people who reject bot requests. Please take no offense.

Some of the rejected summaries at S:BR rejected requests are very unwelcoming. For example, my rejected message had "User has no programming experience" which comes off extremely rude, and when I do have programming experience (if you count Scratch as a programming language... *awkward smile*). The only reason that I don't is because I'm incredibly young, not even in middle school. If I was 5 years older, I would've created a bot already. (Please don't argue this point against me, I don't want the summary bored into my head)

Also, a user may not have much experience in the language, but that doesn't mean that they are incapable of creating a bot. I know many people online (haha don't ask about IRL) that are new to the language that they chose, but they've created amazing stuff. It's enforcing the stereotype of "young children are dumb and can't do complex stuff". No matter how minor, it's still showing bad behavior as a role-model.

This doesn't mean that the admins need to rewrite every single rejected summary, they just need to be more considerate about how others will feel. extreme nostalgia and/or cringe side affects may occur in 3... 2... 1... It's like that concept that everyone was taught in early grade school, fill others buckets, don't dump them.

now my fingers hurt :P

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 21:57, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

As mysteriously as he arrived, NYCDOT was gone again. Hi. I checked out your BR, and it appears that Ken wrote "Proposer has no programming experience and VoxBot is the only approved typography bot." He said it like it is, you have no experience. What is he supposed to say? We aren't going to give out gold stars to people who propose that they create their own bots without any idea how to do so. Try out a some programming languages before proposing a a new Wiki Bot, and I'm sure the next time you have a BR the admins will be more than happy to review your request. As for the bot idea itself, VoxBot is an approved bot that we know works well and does its job. If you have problems with it, I'm sure KrIsMa will listen to your suggestions.
NYCDOT [ Talk Page | Contributions | Directory ] 18:20, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

I do have programming experience, I just only knew Scratch at the time I suggested it. Also, even though I apparently am dumb, I do know a good bit of Python.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 18:25, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Two things. One, no one ever said you were dumb. Not knowing how to do a certain thing doesn't make you dumb. Two, at the time of the bot request, you pretty much had no experience. While you may have some now, that doesn't change the past. If you think of a new, useful bot, you can propose one again.
NYCDOT [ Talk Page | Contributions | Directory ] 18:38, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Welcome back NYCDOT, I came back recently too , also, remember about your indents :P

Scratch is not counted as programming knowledge. Although you could use scratch knowledge to code with other languages, knowing scratch only isn't enough. Can you make a bot with scratch coding? No, you cannot. Ken writing that you have no programming experience is completely fine. You agreed you have no programming experience outside of Scratch.

Although it may be rude for you, it is in no way meant to be rude. Ken wrote all details in his rejected message so that everyone understands why this bot got rejected and so that users don't make a bot for the same reason. There's always a reason for writing things the way it's written.
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  19:42, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

I really don't see how any of the messages are rude?
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  15:11, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

make templates like trout

(yes, i am aware of S:NOTWP. i am suggesting because it's funny.) Self-explanatory. There would also be self-trout, minnow, and whale.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 14:42, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

{{User:Dominic305/Templates/Trout notification}} exists, if it is something multiple people want it could be moved out of my userspace. Until then you can use it with that link. I have not heard of whale or minnow but I'm sure those could also be made if everyone wants them.
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  14:48, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

shameless plug but not many people know about it unless you plug it everywhere :/

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 14:54, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

We do not allow mainspace templates that aren't intended for use in articles or on talk pages. You may make a template like that in your userspace if you want.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 18:17, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Edit: Trout notification is now Trout Selector, I've added whale, and 2 different barnstars (use {{User:Dominic305/Templates/Barnstar/Selector}})
 Dominic305  Talk  Contribs (1,791)  Scratch  Directory  15:21, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I think this discussion can be finished. A trout template and other userspace-only templates can only be made in userspace per Jvvg's comment.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 06:53, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Also, could you please clarify which message you're talking about?

• Special:Upload states "Is the image's filesize over 300KB? If it is, please compress it. TinyPNG is recommended for PNGs and JPEGs (contrary to the name, it does support JPEG)."
• The abuse filter warning that appears when you upload a file that's too large also uses the 300KB number, stating "If your file is over 300KB, please compress it. TinyPNG is recommended for PNGs and JPGs."
• The message that TemplatesFTW posts on users' talk pages after it compresses their files does not state any number, but rather states that "... the image size was kinda big ...".

None of the above messages mention that you should "compress every file you upload if it's not under 2 KB," so could you please clarify which message you are talking about? If I'm missing something obvious, please point it out. Thank you!
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 01:36, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Ahh, yes I meant increase, it's just pretty late where I am and I'm a bit sleepy. Also, the compress if it's over 2 KB thing was a joke to show how low the compressing thing is :P. I'll fix the post before I fall asleep in my chair.
♥ garnetluvcookie ♥ | ♥ talk ♥ | ♥ contribs ♥ 02:08, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Yeah people take compression way too seriously. Maybe at 30mb losslessly you should consider compressing, but there's no reason to compress something already only 20 kb (which is incredibly small in 2020, a lot of JavaScript files are bigger). Some images have been compressed so aggressively that the text becomes difficult to read and have needed to be reverted. The file dimensions were recently increased to 1080p a couple weeks ago, but there hasn't been much comment on file size. I personally think that an increase on file size limit would be very helpful as compression has been taken way too seriously (in most cases it has almost no benefit, although there are always exceptions). In addition, admins for some reason can upload files up to 218 times larger than non-admins, which again I think is another unnecessary line.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 02:19, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Exactly. All it does is decreases file size by like 4 KB. Personally I think that compression is taken wayy too seriously here.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 02:31, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

An idea

Hi everyone, I had an idea recently to make a way for non-wiki editors to suggest changes if they don't want to go through the hassle of making a wiki account. Maybe a google form or something that editors can look at and, if needed, make the change.
Acebsa (talk | contribs) 04:12, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Scratchers are allowed to suggest changes through the Scratch Wiki's forum topic.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 04:16, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

For reference, the Scratch Wiki forum topic is located here. It is also used to ask questions about the wiki as well.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 06:20, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

The issue with that, I found, is that few actually know about it and the non-wikian posts are just random questions about scratch in general.
ContourLines [ Talk ~ Contributions ~ Directory ] 16:36, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

The Scratch Wiki forum topic can be used to do actions requested by the user who started this discussion, so this is now  Done.
Jammum (💬 Talk - ✍️ Contribs) 14:26, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

RfC for Interface admins group

With the recent update to MediaWiki 1.35, a new group has been created: Special:ListGroupRights#interface-admin. Currently, nobody has this group-- however this is the only group that is able to edit pages like MediaWiki:Common.js. While we have policies for how to request Experienced Wikian (through annual elections) and sysop (through requests on Community portal); there is no policy as to how to request Interface admin as it is a new group to Scratch Wiki. There are several possible ideas for how users might request this group.

Below there are three proposals. Keep in mind that these are not necessarily contradictory, multiple or all of them could coexist.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 03:45, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Proposal 1: Allow interface admin to be requested permanently through the community portal

Oppose

I think the group is too specific for this to be useful-- I also think granting permanent access puts importance and does not allow specific tasks to be vetted as they should be.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 03:45, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Oppose, as Naleksuh stated.
TenType (talk | contribs) 04:20, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

As per TenType and Naleksuh.
Filmlover12 Talk Contribs Scratch 13:55, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Proposal 2: Allow interface admin to be requested temporarily (for a specific purpose) through Scratch Wiki talk:Community Portal/Admin Requests

Support

Allows users to edit the interface as needed. Seems like the best path for requesting and allows specific tasks as well as not granting permanent access as needed.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 03:45, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

As per Naleksuh.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 20:04, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Support, but admin will probably only allow certain pages and they can only get certain permissions.
 12944qwerty  Talk  Contribs  Scratch  22:01, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Oppose

"Hey can I have permissions to edit common.js? I want to [do something innocent]. - User1" "Sure, I'll grant you perms. - Admin1" "Thanks! - User1" User1 then proceeds to add a script that steals passwords. Admin1 quickly undos and bans User1, but the damage has been done. User1 can now login as User2 and User3. The exploitation possibility is too large here.
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  20:55, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

True, but this could also easily happen through permanent requests on the community portal. I see you chose not to vote on proposal 1 at all, neither support nor oppose. Is that mistake or intentional?
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 21:00, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Intentional, I would've just been repeating your message.
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  02:47, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Naleksuh, saying one of the other proposals would do the same thing isn't really an argument against VFDan's point (I'm not sure if your intention was to argue against the point, though); because of this, I am interested to know if you do have an argument against it?
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 04:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree with VFDan's statement, and I also think that the ambiguity in this proposal is a very big issue that needs to be addressed. Who would be able to request the permissions? Anyone? Wikians? Users who have been here for 30 days? You might argue that this could be decided afterwards if this proposal is chosen, but that doesn't really make sense to me. Who can request permissions is a very important thing to consider about this proposal before it is chosen, simply because of the sheer trust someone with this usergroup needs to receive from the community. Even if you argue that, for example, time on the wiki is not an effective measure of trustworthiness and/or experience (which is certainly a valid argument to make), there are other issues with ambiguities in this proposal. If anyone can request the permissions, how will "trustworthiness" by measured? For example, say it is a simple vote by the community. How many votes in support of granting the user the permissions will be required to actually grant the user the permissions? Even disregarding all of the ambiguities I've mentioned so far, I'm not sure really think this is a good idea under any circumstances (unless something was put in place where only bureaucrats—for example—would be able to request the permissions). The reason this discussion is happening in the first place is because the permissions granted by the interface-admin usergroup can be used dangerously and maliciously. Instead of taking a shot in the dark and giving users who haven't been trusted with many other permissions a usergroup that can be used dangerously—even temporarily—why don't we grant the permissions to users that are already trusted by the community (for example, bureaucrats with server access)? I really don't see many pros that outweigh the cons of granting any users this permission if they find a use for it and a haphazard look at the user by the community determines that the user is "trustworthy." I want to make it very clear that this is not to say that I don't trust users who aren't EWs, admins, bureaucrats, etc. (I trust very many users who do not have these usergroups!), but rather to say that I don't really see a point in granting the usergroup (again, even temporarily) to users that haven't already been trusted with other permissions by the community when there are readily available users who are trusted with other permissions by the community. Please keep in mind I do not mean to offend anyone with this comment; I just disagree with this proposal. If you have any questions about my statements above, please feel free to ask.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 04:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

I do not think any groups would be required to request it. However, as a guideline, I would say that anyone who was not a Project:Wikians would be unlikely to get it, as it would be difficult to level trust to someone that new. However, I think that people put too much comparison to groups and trust. I would not tie usergroups and trust together here, and would not require Experienced Wikian or administrator. I do not like the implication that anyone who does not have Experienced Wikian is clearly untrustworthy. I would say trust is not something that can be measured or defined, but is done on a user-by-user basis. The three things I think about when granting usergroups are trust, need, and experience. I think it very much works here. Trust is certainly an issue, but I think that most people on Scratch Wiki only think about trust. The other two parts, need and experience, also apply. Need is actually much more easy to do with a temporary group. As one explains what the purpose of it is for, then it is granted for that one purposes then expires once it is done. Experience is also another thing that is commonly considered. If I was a crat, I would be likely to decline the group to anyone who I thought did not have experience with JavaScript/or the type of person who uses weak passwords/no antivirus/etc or something that is likely to get their account compromised. So I think the entirety of this "how would you define who is trustworthy" is kind of a question that it isn't really possible to answer, but trustworthiness can be found for users individually.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 04:49, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

• "I do not think any groups would be required to request it. However, as a guideline, I would say that anyone who was not a Project:Wikians would be unlikely to get it, as it would be difficult to level trust to someone that new."
  • Thanks for clarifying.
• "However, I think that people put too much comparison to groups and trust. I would not tie usergroups and trust together here, and would not require Experienced Wikian or administrator. I do not like the implication that anyone who does not have Experienced Wikian is clearly untrustworthy."
  • When did I imply this? I think I made it very clear in my post that my point was not that I don't trust people who aren't Experienced Wikians, admins, bureaucrats, etc., but rather that those people are already trusted with extra permissions by the community and thus it is less of a risk to grant them the usergroup than others who are simply given a haphazard review by the community. EWs go through a whole election process, and you are suggesting that anyone would be able to easily get this usergroup if they are seen as trusted by the community. By comparison, EWs have proven that they are trustworthy by having access to permissions such as delete, and using them responsibly. I think that you and I both know that there are very many other users in the community who could be trusted with delete, and yet we don't grant them Experienced Wikian, right? Right, because there's not a need. In this case, there is not a need for users who have not been trusted with any extra permissions by the community to be granted this usergroup when there are users readily available who are already trusted with many dangerous permissions. By the way, I am not necessarily saying that I would support EWs, admins, or even bureaucrats without server access having this usergroup; I'm just trying to use those usergroups as a starting point to explain my opinion.
• "I would say trust is not something that can be measured or defined, but is done on a user-by-user basis."
  • Yes. However, some users have been trusted with more dangerous rights than other users, and those users have proven that they can use these rights responsibly. This needs to be taken into account; it can't just be ignored.
• "The three things I think about when granting usergroups are trust, need, and experience. I think it very much works here."
  • Well, yes, those things are good to take into account.
• "Trust is certainly an issue, but I think that most people on Scratch Wiki only think about trust. The other two parts, need and experience, also apply. Need is actually much more easy to do with a temporary group. As one explains what the purpose of it is for, then it is granted for that one purposes then expires once it is done."
  • While I definitely see your point here, I think I should refer to my comment in the "Support" section of Proposal 3 here: "If we don't trust users with server access to only make controversial/major changes after there is consensus, then I feel we have a much larger problem on our hands. " The point is that Proposal 3 can still go hand-in-hand with consensus; users with server access—who are already extremely trusted by the community—can get consensus from the community before making a major or controversial change. If the community sees a user making major changes without first getting consensus, then perhaps the community should revoke their privileges.
• "Experience is also another thing that is commonly considered. If I was a crat, I would be likely to decline the group to anyone who I thought did not have experience with JavaScript/or the type of person who uses weak passwords/no antivirus/etc or something that is likely to get their account compromised."
  • (I think you meant "not commonly considered" here? Unless I am misunderstanding you?) Anyhow, the fact is, we already have users who have this experience and are bureaucrats with server access.
• "So I think the entirety of this "how would you define who is trustworthy" is kind of a question that it isn't really possible to answer, but trustworthiness can be found for users individually."
  • Going off of my previous statement, we have users who have already individually proved themselves as trustworthy over years (for example, jvvg and Ken). Therefore, if those users are willing to take the responsibility for the usergroup (I'm not saying they are or aren't, I'm just using them as an example), why would we take a proverbial "shot in the dark" with someone who the community hasn't yet determined over a long period of time is trustworthy (even if they are trustworthy)?

I'm going to re-post this statement from my earlier comment, since I really want to emphasize it: "I want to make it very clear that this is not to say that I don't trust users who aren't EWs, admins, bureaucrats, etc. (I trust very many users who do not have these usergroups!), but rather to say that I don't really see a point in granting the usergroup (again, even temporarily) to users that haven't already been trusted with other permissions by the community when there are readily available users who are trusted with other permissions by the community."

Again, I do not mean to offend anyone with my statements. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 05:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Furthermore, why would we want to make sure a user is trustworthy and experienced as well as making sure that the changes are necessary many of the times when someone proposes changes, when we would just have to do one of those things with Proposal 4 (make sure the changes are necessary)? Just something to keep in mind.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 05:47, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Proposal 3: Allow interface admin to be non-controversially granted to any user with server access

Support

This is exactly how it used to be, and anybody with server access is trusted, and they usually won't make changes without the community's approval; they should still ask for feedback, but they should have the right.
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  20:55, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

My statements in the "Oppose" section of Proposal 2 apply here. If we don't trust users with server access to only make controversial/major changes after there is consensus, then I feel we have a much larger problem on our hands.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 04:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

My point here was that the request for the group also serves as a chance to discuss the proposed edits, which is why I wanted them to request it through there. Jvvg had raised a point on Discord about that sometimes urgent changes must be made that don't have time for consensus, but I was not really satisfied with the examples given and did not think it was worth it. I could see a server user granting to themself for example to perform a change that must be done for legal reasons, or to revert vandalism to such a page. But because the request process also serves as a way to discuss the edits, I do not think they should have the group 24/7.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 04:49, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

We already trust users with server access with, well, server access; so why should we not trust that they will get consensus from the community before making a major change? Consensus doesn't have to come through a usergroup request system.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 05:32, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

There are some times that changes need to be made with little or no notice. For example, when setting up a new extension (a recent example that comes to mind is that due to a small glitch in setting up the new account request system, some messages on the account request page did not render properly, so we had to update the messages immediately). Having to go through community approval usually takes days, which in most cases is ok, but requiring it to be able to make any change at all adds unnecessary burden when sometimes quick action is needed. Thus I think keeping the permission available to server admins while having a policy be that non-urgent changes should be community approved would be best, but making it so we do not have the technical ability to make urgent changes could actually cause problems.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 17:30, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

This seems reasonable, however in the past granting a permission to a specific group leads to that group interpreting it as "go and do whatever you want with it". I think it does make sense for server users to grant interface admin to themselves for solely technical maintenance or time-sensitive tasks, but not for anything that requires discussion. Sounds okay.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 18:05, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Oppose

This was initially proposed because users with server access have the ability to escalate their own permissions to begin with-- but I would still prefer they request it through the traditional method as the community should still at least be given a chance to weigh in on the attempted edits.
Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 03:45, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Oppose. What if in the rare case that someone with server access ruins the wiki with the admin privilege? Additionally, as per Naleksuh.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 20:04, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Someone with server access can delete every single file on the wiki anyway...
 Luvexina  Talk  Contribs  On Scratch  00:31, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Proposal 4 (by apple): Get rid of that group, and grant the permissions to bureaucrats

This is similar to Proposal 3 except we remove the interface admin entirely. Bureaucrats are trusted enough to edit Common.js; no need for a new group. This is basically the same as 1.28 system.

We can (probably) also grant this to admins - they are trusted members chosen by bureaucrats.
Apple502j Talk/Activities 2,243edit 10:48, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Support

Support, no need to have a new usergroup. What we had in 1.28 worked just fine.
Jakel181 (talk | contribs) 12:08, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Oppose

• Oppose. It did not "work just fine", admin is too low a barrier to be editing JavaScript pages and the group was added for a reason. In addition, removing the group seems like another attempt to turn Scratch Wiki into a hierarchy which I will certainly oppose. The group was created for a reason, security reasons, and removing it would be a net negative for the same reason there is consensus to not remove CheckUser and Suppressor groups. If you think that all users with server access should be able to edit the interface, I'd say support proposal 3. But not remove the group.
  Naleksuh (talk | contribs) 19:30, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

As per Naleksuh.

garnetluvcookie (talk | contribs) 20:04, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Same as the above ^^
TenType (talk | contribs) 04:20, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

General Comments

From Naleksuh's original post: "While we have policies for how to request Experienced Wikian (through annual elections) and sysop (through requests on Community portal); ..." — I am surprised no one has pointed out that this is not how we choose Experienced Wikians and admins. EW elections are not annual; the current EWs and admins start one when they feel a new one is needed. Admins are not always elected through the Community Portal; for example, makethebrainhappy was appointed (not elected) during an EW election. I think the reason my case when being granted admin (for instance) was different was because there was no EW election happening at the time. I just wanted to clarify this, since when a controversial discussion is happening, we should at least make sure that objective statements are correct.
bigpuppy talk ▪︎ contribs 04:23, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

I am going to provide my two cents here and indicate that I don't think this is really a good use of our time. The interface changes pretty infrequently, and we currently do have a system in place that only trusted users (bureaucrats, who have all been active for a very long time with a good track record) can edit interface text, and if an interface change is requested by any non-bureaucrat, they can contact a bureaucrat. Ken and I are around often enough that a change should be handled within a day. If the situation changes and at some point we do need a lot of interface edits, we can revisit the situation.
jvvg (talk | contribs) 18:48, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

This whole idea is mistaken. We've never had a process to "request" any usergroups - adminship has never been granted by explicit request (jvvg's exceptional case was that scmb1 saw a need and filled it), and EW is by election, which is not the same thing as by request. Admins and bureaucrats have always been appointed.

There's been talk of removing the EW usergroup, and while that was eventually rejected, it still baffles me that you would propose adding a usergroup (or giving it purpose, anyway) in light of proposals to remove them.

The permissions of admins and bureaucrats are a strict superset of those of interface admins. For that reason I would originally have gone with Proposal 4 (removing the group entirely). However removing software default usergroups makes me uncomfortable, and there could be a future-proofing argument to be made. For that reason I suppose it can stay, just empty.

Addendum:

• Proposal 1 is unacceptable because we do not grant usergroups by request.
• Proposal 2 is unacceptable because either it bypasses the amount of trust we require of people with interface access, or the amount of trust building it would require would be better spent on becoming EW and admin.
• Proposal 3 is redundant because giving the group to those with server access grants no new permissions to them.
• Proposal 4 is not worth it because removing builtin usergroups is dodgy and the situation may change in the future.

In conclusion, I'm unilaterally stating here that all proposals in this topic are rejected. Therefore this topic is now marked  Done.
kenny2scratch  Talk  Contribs  Directory  19:14, 17 February 2021 (UTC)